Pit Bull Fast Approaching - Page 7

Pit Bull Fast Approaching

This is a discussion on Pit Bull Fast Approaching within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Good thread. As the OP, I appreciate everyone's responses. Just to reiterate a point: - I had no idea about this dog's existence before the ...

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  1. #91
    Member Array silo's Avatar
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    Good thread. As the OP, I appreciate everyone's responses.

    Just to reiterate a point:

    - I had no idea about this dog's existence before the incident; only the nature of the white trash neighbors. I'd believe -- reasonably -- that they wouldn't have raised this dog appropriately.
    - I was an animal rights vegetarian for four years. I'm not an animal hater by any means. So, no, I'm not out to shoot anything that moves.
    - My primary concern was for my kids, pregnant wife, and the children of my neighbors.

    While ultimately the right decision was made, unfortunately it was only due to me not having my firearm on me. Had I had it, I have no doubt I would have put that dog down.


  2. #92
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    Cool

    While ultimately the right decision was made, unfortunately it was only due to me not having my firearm on me. Had I had it, I have no doubt I would have put that dog down. (Quote)

    Which is all the more reason to have other levels of response to a situation like this. When you carry a firearm for self-defense you need to be able to have other options if deadly force is not justified with humans, why not do the same when dealing with canines.

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    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

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  3. #93
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Indeed, and most of the options that are viable with humans are viable with canines
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Dear Sir, I respect the way you have trained your dog and I understand your argument about "it's the owner and not the dog". However, I hope you can also see that because of a PB's toughness and tenacity many of the "wrong" type of owners gravitate towards this breed. The PB's strength, hyper loyalty and strong territoriality combined with a poor owner can make for a very dangerous animal.

    Poorly trained PBs are dangerous. There can be no denying it. Unlike a gun, a PB can go off without the owner pulling the trigger.For the record I lived with a PB Rhodesian Ridge-back mix for years and he was a loving kind soul. He was a great, loving, friendly dog. He was also very powerful and with a poor owner he could have been deadly.



    ^^^^^^^^^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^^^


    I agree!


    Report: U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities January 2006
    to December 2008
    A 2009 report issued by DogsBite.org shows that 19 dog breeds contributed to 88 deaths in a recent 3-year period. Pit bulls accounted for 59% followed by rottweilers with 14%.

    Of the 88 fatal dog attacks recorded by DogsBite.org, pit bull type dogs were responsible for 59% (52). This is equivalent to a pit bull killing a U.S. citizen every 21 days during this 3-year period.
    The data also shows that pit bulls commit the vast majority of off-property attacks that result in death. Only 18% (16) of the attacks occurred off owner property, yet pit bulls were responsible for 81% (13).

    Taken from here;

    U.S. Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org
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  5. #95
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I'm not trying to argue the stats, but.... without knowing the population of dogs, those stats by themselves are useless in the sense ... that it's the breed, vs more of them and more bad owners.

    When "any" breed has become popular in the last 60 's that I've seen.... boxer, German Shephards, chows, pits, collies, doberman's, Rotts, etc.... there were high numbers of people owning those dogs, vs other breeds. And every one of those breeds has been hailed as vicious, should be banned, are too dangerous to own, etc. and incidents of them chewing up and killing some kid somewhere. Well, if you have 1000 dogs of one breed, and 1000 dogs of all other breeds combined, won't you probably have more dog bites from the 1000 of one breed.... and on top of this, dumb owners who are not responsibile and either don't train, or encourage aggression, are more likely to own them.

    My bet is, once Pit bulls popularity among the idiots dies down, they wont' be seen any differently than any other breed is now. Pit Bulls have always been around, just not in the mass numbers they are now with the bad breeding and ownership that goes along with the popularity. The iditos will be off on some other newer popular breed, and there will be a whole set of the same arguments about a whole different breed. I've been watching this happen all of my life.
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  6. #96
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    Moral of the story... Shoot all charging Dogs. Don't discriminate based on breed.

  7. #97
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enk5 View Post
    Moral of the story... Shoot all charging Dogs. Don't discriminate based on breed.
    Or, get a cat.

  8. #98
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    Clearly EagleKS you are not going to see the forest through the trees.

    You have to be absolutely and completely blind to reality to ignore the fact that, out of hundreds of breeds, one breed is responsible for 6 out of 10 fatalities in the US (59%). That same breed is responsible for 8 out of 10 (81%) off property fatalities in the US during the three years of data. It is absolutely absurd to continue arguing your point. THERE CANNOT POSSIBLY BE THAT MANY BAD OWNERS to skew the data that far. At some point in time the PB has to shoulder some of the blame.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeBool View Post
    If a pit bull, rot, doberman or any other vicious breed of dog charges me, it is getting shot. Period. I would hesitate FAR less to shoot a dog than a human being. I'm not going to jail for the rest of my life if I unjustly kill a dog, therefore I refuse to be bitten by someone's unruly animal while waiting to determine if it wanted to "play". No thanks, I will see you in court where you can explain how fluffy the pitbull was the friendliest animal in the world, and I can explain how cujo came charging at my family.
    And this my friends is why there are so many anti-gun people in this world. Here we have a perfect example of an admission of shot first for no reason and worry about the consequences later. I am glad you live far away from me, because I would be scared of having somebody so "fearful" living within ballistics distance of me, you sound dangerous.
    Lack of knowledge is a scary thing, just because the news makes you think something is vicious doesn't make it the truth. And no I don't own a pitbul.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by enk5 View Post
    Moral of the story... Shoot all charging Dogs. Don't discriminate based on breed.
    Exactly! You should treat all dogs running towards you the same. Some people are turning this into a breed war, but you should not feel complacent just because the 60 lb dog charging you is yellow and has long ears. You have to be able to assess any dog's intentions and react with enough force if needed. This thread could have simply been titled Medium dog fast approaching. The way it started out is no different than the threads that come up now and then about a minority in a parking lot. Your SA should be kept on a more even keel. IMO

  11. #101
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    If I am not mistaken, several members have related state law that indicates that you are in trouble if you should kill a dog unless you have scratch marks or teeth marks or ripped clothing to support the attack. If that is the case, it has got to be increditably stupid and naive. From the statement, I guess it is only after a dog has put his canines into my throat that I am allowed the privilege of shooting it---how utterly ridiculous. I will reiterate one of my previous comments and those of several members that just because a dog is coming at you does not necessarity mean he is going for your throat--it is not like you can talk to the dog and ask him his intentions like you can with a potential perp nor come up with an alternate scenario to avoid the confrontation. That is why I find answers like pepper spray, wasp spray, and my choice of carrying a serrated long knife on my person during my daily walks more important. The knife, if I was actually attacked would allow me (I believe) to seriously stop the dog attack if not kill it. The firearm scenario is really only good when there is some distance and at that time, you cannot be sure of the dog's intentions. Once he is on you, the firearm, under those close and difficult times, is almost useless. On top of all this, situational awareness comes to mind. If you are aware of your surroundings, you will, more than likely, appreciate dogs in the area, behaviour of dogs in the area, and be prepared in some fashion, and even leave an area as your awareness heightens to a possible problem with a dog in the area.

  12. #102
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Black and White, no gray area. Every dog that comes running towards you is a deadly threat and your only option is to use deadly force as you are capable of nothing less. How does this work out in a defensive senario with another human being ? Do you only carry a firearm ? Have you no other options to defend you and your loved ones ? No knowledge of kicks and strikes ? Impact weapons ? Chemical sprays ? This thread should be thought provoking from the standpoint of the abilities of each and everyone of us to be able to have more than one option in our use of force toolbox.
    Guantes likes this.
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  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Or, get a cat.
    My neighbor has a brother in Colorado with a Bobcat. The Bobcat has in the past, lured dogs onto his property and then shredded them up.

  14. #104
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Clearly EagleKS you are not going to see the forest through the trees.
    You have to be absolutely and completely blind to reality to ignore the fact that, out of hundreds of breeds, one breed is responsible for 6 out of 10 fatalities in the US (59%). That same breed is responsible for 8 out of 10 (81%) off property fatalities in the US during the three years of data. It is absolutely absurd to continue arguing your point. THERE CANNOT POSSIBLY BE THAT MANY BAD OWNERS to skew the data that far. At some point in time the PB has to shoulder some of the blame.
    Pick a decade since 1950, and there are some of us on here that can tell you the "vicious" breed of each of those decades that the very same things, the very same arugments were all made..... the same types of "BANS" were discussed, printed about, and those same breeds are now not considered vicious at all. If we could go back and pull the stats, they would all say the same things you are using in your argument as they did then on some other breed. .... because they had become "popular" , misbred, and there were so many of them .... owned by irresponsible owners and those who wanted a vicious dog... they didn't realize the owner made them vicious. Plus there were 30 x's of that breed around, than the others combined...

    I forgot to list another one above, Siberian Huskies, .... the same arguments, stats, etc were all used on them at one time as well.

    Two younger kids were killed very close to my house that I knew by 2 German Shephards, and at the time... there were the same arguments that German Shephards were considered to dangerous, to vicious, and everyone wanted to outlaw anyone owning them because they were killing kids, attacking people .... blah, blah, blah , blah. You could print out every article, and just change the name of the breed.... from then , to now.

    After German Shephards, it was Chows.... and they were vicious and reports of them killing / attacking kids, to dangerous to own. What's new here ?

    Your bias .... is blinding you.... to what's been going on for years and years. It's just a new decade, and they're on a another breed now.. pitbulls. I have heard and seen this same thing occur thru my enitre life .... on German shephards, boxers, dobermans, chows, huskies, mastiffs, rotts, and other breeds as well.

    But, I"m not a proponent of Pitbulls..... I'm against "anyone" who defines any dog that is running and barking as vicious and don't have a clue, and their first and only method of handling this ...... without any other tools in their tool box and not knowing even if it truly is, is to start shooting, and telling me I just better get out of the way and get over it. That's what I take issue with. That person, is to quick to go to the gun to solve issues without even considering other options, or even care to. Most dogs that truly are vicious and will attack, don't bark .... they will just attack. I think some of those people , need to get over their fear of dogs .... and if I feel threatened in a situation as a result of one of those people, I will protect myself in the process.

    I think we would be better off, discussing good techniques to evaluate when and if a dog is actually attacking or vicious, and tools, techiques, etc/ to handle these situation...... and not always using a gun as our one and only option. I don't think this thread is going to get there..... so, I'm done with it. Have fun.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  15. #105
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    EagleKS, my bias is not blinding me. As a child I was mauled and nearly killed by a GSD. The doctors told my parents that the only thing that saved my life was that I was small (5) and the GSD was BIG. His jaws were too big and he missed my throat and instead clamped onto my whole torso. I spent a good bit of time in the hospital from that. I have been bitten two other times by GSDs and once by a chow. If I had to pick a breed of dog that I really hated it would be the Chow (I've never met a nice one), not the PB or GSD.

    If you have read all of my posts above you saw that I lived with a PB ridgeback mix for years and he was a fabulous dog. I loved him very much.

    I also understand your point about the PB being the "in" dog right now...BUT, the PBs strength, tenacity and power combined with a bad owner in most cases does make them more deadly than almost any other breed of dog. It really doesn't matter who is to blame the owner or the breed, the reality is that this breed and "bad" owners have created a "perfect storm" of fatalities across the US.

    If you see a PB running at you from down the street how are you supposed to know if he is nice or if he is a killing machine? The answer is, you don't!
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

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