Wittnessing an abduction - Page 2

Wittnessing an abduction

This is a discussion on Wittnessing an abduction within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Oaklands That is a real shame. I hope they find her. Have to agree with call 911 and tail them safely until ...

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Thread: Wittnessing an abduction

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array justherenow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oaklands View Post
    That is a real shame. I hope they find her. Have to agree with call 911 and tail them safely until help arrives.
    They found her body in the septic tank at her was soon to be ex in-laws church. Sad ending and senseless killing.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array justherenow's Avatar
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    This case turned into a tragity. The estranged husband and inlaws was arrested and charged with her kidnapping, they found her body last night in a septic tank at the church her inlaws were members at, she was strangeled. Now her three kids have to grow up without their mother and knowing their father and grandparents killed her. It was obviosuly planned out, they picked the only place around the bank with no cameras, they took the plates off the car and knew where they wanted to dump the body. They also took the car the next day and took the spotlight off of it (it was an old police car) and put the plates back on, went to Cleveland and got new tires and rims as well and detailed the inside of it. They also had a story planned for JR but the police investigated it and found it to be false. The pulled two firearms and two knives along with a lot of other items out of their home in a search warrant after their arrest.

    For the defensive aspect. By the news breifing today, they said that two people wittnessed the abduction, one attempted to intervine and was sprayed with pepper foam of some sort. Honestly knowing that and seeing that they were willing to use force to complete their task, engaging may have been justified.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Was driving the highway on the way home .... live some miles outside a larger city .... a car pulled over rather abruptly (quickly) and stopped , and a woman jumped out of the car and started to run. A guy quickly jumped out and grabbed her, and forced her back into the car. There were 2 men in the car... she seemed to be fighting them inside the car.

    I called 911, followed them .... giving dispatcher their location. They realized at one point , or was checking it to see if I was following them. ... and , they stepped on it. I continued to follow but didn't step on it.... and they soon slowed back down to normal highway speed.

    2 County Sheriff showed up and dispatcher was asking me if that was my car that they were coming up behind, and I told her "yes"... and if the black Cutlass in front of me was "the car", and I told her "yes".... and they then pulled them over....... a 3rd arrived shortly as well. They ordered them out of the car under gun point.

    Long story short.... both men were armed, one in the back had been keeping a knife to her throat and she had some significant cuts on her neck, she said they had told her they were taking her out into the country to kill her ... and had pointed out some 'rifles' they had in the back of the car. In the trunk, they had two semi-auto rifles and a shotgun (all loaded) . She was badly beaten up and required an ambulance. The officers told her that the only reason they knew it was due to my call and following them ...... her last statement to me was , "thank you for saving my life".

    You decide. When I made the call, I was not sure it was an abduction or ... a husb / wife arguing, but decided when I saw them fighting inside the car, a call was worth making sure. The 2 men were found guilty of numerous charges and went bye bye for a very very long time.
    +1000 and exactly the way I would handle such situations.

    It will always be a double edge sword because true stranger abductions almost always end badly for the abducted person. If they survive at all, they are most certainly traumatized permanently will never recover fully. They are damaged for life. Some survivors, years later have said they almost wish they had not survived. The sexual torture can be brutal. You don't want some scumbag getting away with that if you are in the unique position of witnessing an actual abduction take place right in front of you.

    The other side of the sword is that you almost certain will never have all the facts in what you are seeing. Domestic situations almost always turn ugly when you get involved. Then there are the pranksters. Yeah, it's been known to happen. When sticking your nose into other peoples business, things can turn ugly on a dime and if you end up in a killing situation, the legal quagmire you inserted yourself into could cost a fortune to get out of. Whether or not your intentions were pure or not, things get ugly once the death of another person transpires.

    But the seriousness of outcome of a true abduction which are horrible beyond belief dictates, at least to me more than just a watching casually what happens and then waiting for confirmation of what you witnessed play out on the nightly news. Therefore, while I would likely not make a direct confrontation with the abductors, I would opt to do what Eagleks chose to do and call 911 and continue to shadow them until law enforcement is able to take direct action. Because of the dire consequences of letting a true kidnapper get out of my sight with his prey, this is one of the very rare situations where I would actually follow them in my car. For me, it's not good enough to just call 911 and give a make, model and license plate number to the dispatcher. Plates and or the car itself could be stolen, they could change vehicles at another location or any number of other things happen to foil your initial report. I would do my best to keep eyes on target until law enforcement can intercept and take direct action.

    Some members here may remember I posted about a call I responded to of a 14 year old girl who was abducted and gang raped repeatedly by two men armed with a shotgun and pistol. Raped and brutalized repeatedly for several hours they then took her to a remote area and made her dig her own grave with a shovel in the woods.

    One of the abductors clearly was apprehensive about murdering her but they were drunk and high and she was sure they would go ahead and kill her. One kept pistol whipping her in the back of the head every time she tried to stop digging and cried. The only reason she's alive today is that one of the nearby fire departments received an unrelated call and when they heard sirens near by they got scared and left her there and fled. She ran naked and battered through the woods until she came to a house and they called EMS and police.

    The description she provided me of the car, a partial license plate number, names they called each other and identifying tattoos in the back of the ambulance allowed us to get a broadcast out quickly. Within a couple hours a lone highway patrolman spotted the car at the Iowa border and gave chase into Iowa. Along with local Iowa police they stopped them and found the weapons, her clothes and underwear and her blood all over the car. The tattoo's confirmed their identity as well as the fact that they used their real names convinced myself and the LEO's they would surely have killed her if they weren't scared away by fire truck sirens responding on a totally unrelated call.

    There was some other things involved I'm not going to get into here, but had I had not taken the opportunity to interview her in the back of the ambulance en route to the hospital and got those descriptors broadcast as soon as we did, they would have been out of state and possibly never been caught. It was truly a chilling incident and has stuck with me vividly for the last 15 years.
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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I remember the case where a guy tried to abduct a girl (12 yrs old ) in her very large country front yard, but she got away from him and momma was running out of the house, so he took off. Down the road a few miles, he attempted to abduct another 12 yr old girl... who also fought him and was able to get away. The 3rd girl, a few miles down the road was grabbed and got into the truck..... not fighting him.

    An officer was responding to the first call , when the report of the 2nd attemp came across his radio with a description of the truck, which he passed very shortly thereafter..... turned around and the chase was on. The Abductor went off road when he got to a busy traffic area, got stuck, and was caught after a brief stand off with weapons ..... no doubt he would have killed her. The 'mass' of police that arrived at the scene convinced the guy if he harmed the girl or shot her, he was a dead man, so he surrendered.
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  5. #20
    Senior Member Array justherenow's Avatar
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    In the case I posted, it is now reported that they used a stun gun in order to aid in the kidnapping and that they zip tied her hands and used a zip tie to strangle her to death, the corner found a ziptie extreamly tight around her neck, it just keep getting worse. I really wish someone would have taken some action other than 911, even if it was just following the car.

    This case has been eating at me since day one and the more they report the madder I get.

    Think I need some range time to blow off some steam.
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  6. #21
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Getting information into "the system" about the person, vehicle, location, actions and what-not is the best thing you can do in many cases.

    You don't know what you will be getting into in any encounter, so you need to view it dispassionately as you can as if you were a large hunting cat looking for an opportunity to strike prey who is much larger than you are.

    You don't attack head on, you distract it, hit it from behind...or let someone else handle it till you are ready to strike.

    911 and a cell phone beats 1911 or 9mm...

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Was driving the highway on the way home .... live some miles outside a larger city .... a car pulled over rather abruptly (quickly) and stopped , and a woman jumped out of the car and started to run. A guy quickly jumped out and grabbed her, and forced her back into the car. There were 2 men in the car... she seemed to be fighting them inside the car.

    I called 911, followed them .... giving dispatcher their location. They realized at one point , or was checking it to see if I was following them. ... and , they stepped on it. I continued to follow but didn't step on it.... and they soon slowed back down to normal highway speed.

    2 County Sheriff showed up and dispatcher was asking me if that was my car that they were coming up behind, and I told her "yes"... and if the black Cutlass in front of me was "the car", and I told her "yes".... and they then pulled them over....... a 3rd arrived shortly as well. They ordered them out of the car under gun point.

    Long story short.... both men were armed, one in the back had been keeping a knife to her throat and she had some significant cuts on her neck, she said they had told her they were taking her out into the country to kill her ... and had pointed out some 'rifles' they had in the back of the car. In the trunk, they had two semi-auto rifles and a shotgun (all loaded) . She was badly beaten up and required an ambulance. The officers told her that the only reason they knew it was due to my call and following them ...... her last statement to me was , "thank you for saving my life".

    You decide. When I made the call, I was not sure it was an abduction or ... a husb / wife arguing, but decided when I saw them fighting inside the car, a call was worth making sure. The 2 men were found guilty of numerous charges and went bye bye for a very very long time.
    Very well played. Thank you for sharing.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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