This is a discussion on Question about escalation... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Marvelous!...
"I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".
i agree with TVJ, ' Where the hell did our manners go?" i have a six month old and i figure if ya aint old or a cripple, i got the right of way, so move it, my kids health/saftey is #1 period, no ifs ands or buts still been cold in this area so me gettin his lil butt in the car is my first job, but you should keeps a heads up if the car next to you is going be movin in the next few mins, what side is the carseat on?
It's on the drivers side, I may move it to the passenger side and start crawling across the drivers side to strap her in, haven't decided yet. I like to keep her behind the driver so the passenger can reach her and deal with her if she has an issue while the car is in motion. I do try to keep a heads up for people getting into their cars, but don't always catch it in time. I also try to park where it's a non-issue, but those spaces aren't always available. I haven't had this issue in 6 months or so, but I thought it would be a good discussion and a good place to get ideas. Thanks all.
Like I said, should be a non-issue for a gun, and one should never be involved. Just curious if it ever came to that, what a reasonable person would think. Would me tapping/thumping the car to get their attention (because that's all I'm trying to do) be consider "instigating" a confrontation. Normally all I say after the tap is "Just a second, I'm almost done, wanted to make sure you saw me." and that's the end of it. But for those that mouth off back, am I the instigator or are they for responding in an unreasonable manner?
For the purpose of this post consider also, what if you were helping an older child with a disability or even a disabled adult into or out of the car? (Which I often have to do with my mother and M-I-L when they are visiting.) Doesn't have to just be a car seat scenario, there could be plenty of other times when a door must be held open for an extended period with a person standing there. Take the other human out of the scenario....You're in the middle of loading a LARGE package into the car, if you try to move quickly you'll drop it and your brand new $1500.00 TV will hit the pavement, A-hat next to you jumps in car and starts to back out....
I must agree with Guantes. It very rarely takes me more than 10-15 seconds to buckle my child in. (usually less than 7 seconds; having a turning car seat helps though) I'm just not finding this situation happening to me very often. I might've had something like this occur maybe three times in 2 years?
I can also agree with where have our manners gone. If someone next to me is getting in or getting out (man, woman, child, doesn't matter), I wait (reasonably) until they are in a safer position. While I feel that I have the driving skill to back out of the park without them moving, it's polite to wait a few seconds. Granted, there are some (many) people in this world that feel everyone else has to adjust to them and that the world revolves around them. I am not as polite to these people. (I'm not going to show politeness and respect to someone who won't do the same)
I just love the people who treat parking lots like crosswalks though. The ones who walk behind you while you're backing out and you can't see who or what's coming on either side of you, and then somehow it's your fault for not seeing them and getting too close? Or the ones that love to walk down the middle of a driving aisle.
But no, tapping someone's car is not a good idea (could be viewed as provoking). Perhaps a small airhorn might help you get their attention instead?
BTW, Dad of 2yo girl, and her car seat is on the driver's side as well.
I believe in courtesy to my fellow man. I also would be carrying, therefore I will have to display even more patience. If I were approaching my car and saw someone loading a child in the car next to me, I would wait a minute or two for them to finish before getting in to my car. This is usually all that's needed to speed them along and they're done...problem avoided. If they are really taking their time and talking on a cell phone and oblivious to all going on around them, I may politely say that I need to leave. Thumping my car would be something that I would not look upon favorably. I obviously wouldn't go ballistic about it, but there would be a discussion with the thumper.
Next time someone does this, pretend they ran over your foot or hit you. Make a big fuss over it and make like your calling 911. See how fast you get an apology. Ok, just kidding - while I'd love to suggest that, I'd bet there are many who would speed up and attempt to flee the scene of their fictitious hit and run, putting you or others in even more danger.
I'm in favor of stopping what you are doing, closing that door and going around to the other side to finish. Probably wouldn't the resist the urge to shake my head at them as I did so, but hey I'm not perfect either.
There are multiple things to consider here
The issue here is reasonable person, if you ever find yourself in a courtroom the jury will not be full of us and they won't be your peers. They will have hours, days, possibly months to take apart and analyze everything you did or could have done and apply their reasoning to it, you only had seconds to decide. If you've ever engaged in a discussion with anyone that is anti-gun, you know that they are not reasonable. Now, as we are here, among like minded individuals you can ask what we would do. The first thing that most of us have all ready said is that we would not knock on the car at all unless absolutely necessary. When you begin carrying that gun will be a part of everything you do, just like your realization regarding restrooms you have to understand that any altercation involving you while you're carrying also involves a firearm and therefore any altercation has the potential to result in the use of lethal force.Like I said, should be a non-issue for a gun, and one should never be involved. Just curious if it ever came to that, what a reasonable person would think. Would me tapping/thumping the car to get their attention (because that's all I'm trying to do) be consider "instigating" a confrontation. Normally all I say after the tap is "Just a second, I'm almost done, wanted to make sure you saw me." and that's the end of it. But for those that mouth off back, am I the instigator or are they for responding in an unreasonable manner?
Now that being said you do not have to live life as mute walking mat and in such an event if you were to tap on a car for those reasons and the driver exited the vehicle and caused you to be in fear of your (or your child's) life or great bodily harm, they would be acting with an inappropriate level of response, but let's be clear that just because they exit the vehicle they do not pose an immediate threat, they must have ability, opportunity, and demonstrate some sort of intent. They may be irate if they think you hit their car with your door, some people just treat their cars like their kids and may not like you touching it. You must really be in danger/risk.
For the purpose of this post consider also, what if you were helping an older child with a disability or even a disabled adult into or out of the car? (Which I often have to do with my mother and M-I-L when they are visiting.) Doesn't have to just be a car seat scenario, there could be plenty of other times when a door must be held open for an extended period with a person standing there. Take the other human out of the scenario....You're in the middle of loading a LARGE package into the car, if you try to move quickly you'll drop it and your brand new $1500.00 TV will hit the pavement, "Some dude" next to you jumps in car and starts to back out....
Sure, tap the car, I'm probably going to yell STOP! as loud as I can, but whatever works for you. The key thing in all of this is are you in legitimate fear of your life and no, generally speaking tapping another car in order to prevent it from damaging yourself or property is probably not going to be seen as provoking an altercation but you never now as you can find yourself in a location that is anti-gun, anti-carry, anti-self defense and looking to make an example, especially with some of the negative opinions on the new shall issue law here in Iowa.
You can't plan for everything, just remember what I said above, anything you do while carrying involves that firearm and you should do all that you can to ensure that you do not escalate a situation to where it results in a lethal force encounter. My car has insurance, I don't care if someone hits it. If I buy a huge TV I'm to pick it up in front of the store and make it easier to load, when loading my kid I'm going to make sure that I can get fully in the car and do it even it means that I have to put stuff in the cargo area/trunk.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
It took me forever to get my grand daughters into their car seats. They finally learned to buckle themselves up. I used to throw my kids in the back of the station wagon with a blanket and some toys. I also used to use bungee cords to hold them on the motorcycle. They were always going to sleep. Back to the OP it seems you are doing the best as you can. You have some good suggestions. I would just not be tapping the cars. Use your SA.
Last edited by BkCo1; March 30th, 2011 at 06:48 PM. Reason: spelling
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"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson
You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.
Right after you tap their car..... start limping & moaning around and asking who they have their insurance with ....
The tap is to get their attention, not an escalation in my mind.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
another thought, people are good at reading lips, if you use the right words