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Watching COPS on TV, scenario for you all

4K views 42 replies 29 participants last post by  wolf88 
#1 ·
Guy is walking down the street across from some apartments. A guy who lives in the apartments starts threatening the walker from his steps of the apartment. The walker keeps walking. The guy from the apartment keeps yelling "I'm gonna kill you, you privacy rapist" (lot of whackos out there) and then charges the guy with a knife. Ultimately in real life the walker was able to escape and the attacker went back home. The cops showed up and the walker ID'd the guy and the knife which the police found in his apartment.

SO obviously a fight or flight scenario. But if someone charges you with a knife (you are alone) and you have a gun do you run away and hope you are faster or pull the gun and put him down?

And by the way, it was clear from the post arrest comments that the attacker wasn't all there. Does that make a difference?
 
#2 ·
Being not all there does not make the knife wounds any less traumatic. If it was an immediate threat and I could not deescalate the situation by increasing distance or OC then he would have more medical issues than mental. That is a shoot situation.
 
#3 ·
I'd think it'd be state dependant. GA, for example, doesn't have the "Duty to Retreat" law. If this happened to me, the guy w/ the knife would be escalated against properly (verbal warning, etc...if time permitted), and if did not cease, would be shot. I can't run due to my back injury. So ya, the BG here would have a few ounces of extra metal in his body. I'm not a psychiatrist/psychologist, so the "wasn't all there" thing is not for me to determine, especially if coming at me with a knife.
 
#14 ·
I'd think it'd be state dependent. GA, for example, doesn't have the "Duty to Retreat" law. If this happened to me, the guy w/ the knife would be escalated against properly (verbal warning, etc...if time permitted), and if did not cease, would be shot. I can't run due to my back injury. So ya, the BG here would have a few ounces of extra metal in his body. I'm not a psychiatrist/psychologist, so the "wasn't all there" thing is not for me to determine, especially if coming at me with a knife.
+1 He might get a "STOP, DROP YOUR WEAPON" and then I escalate. His mental state, being on drugs, etc are not relevant to "I was in fear for my life and I defended my (self/wife/daughter). If I have pepper spray or tazer (left hand), he may get a chance to play again.
 
#4 ·
I guess the only question I have (and rarely hear anyone talk about) is can I pull my weapon and say "stop or I'll shoot". If he stops, I don't shoot. If he doesn't.......BANG!? But in the case he stops, am I liable for "brandishing a weapon"?
 
#30 ·
Asking this question, it seems like you are unclear on the law in Alabama. I suggest reading your Alabama Use of Force Law's.

I also suggest taking Airsoft Force on Force training in your area and run this type of drill to see what you do under this type of stress. I notice that my warning is my gun indexed. My concentration is on targeting my frontsight/point shoot of the bad guy. I want/intend to hit him every trigger pull. Talking interferes with my concentration to efficiently neutralize the threat into the ground and/or move off the X to make myself a difficult target. I realized this when I did Force on Force and someone attacks quickly.


This situation is crystal clear here in Texas. http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm

Texas greenlights the use of lethal force. It is reasonable for me to believe (rightly or wrongly) that the man charging me with knife attempts to kill/murder me.

Greenlight lethal force.

Movement becomes tactical depending on his speed, location, my awareness of him. I didnt see the episode. It seems like there was "alot" (use the term loosely) of preparation time as far as attacks go.

No OC, warning optional and depends on the moment and how slow the attack occurs, zero requirement. Mentally unstable is irrelevant in the eyes of the law and/or mine when closing distance on me with a weapon, knife/shank.

Bang bang bang bang into the ground

I train weekly in Tom Sotis Amok knife FoF. I have extreme respect for the power of the knife/shank in contact distance.

At contact distance, it can be very dangerous to bring a gun to a knife fight with only a semiskilled but well focused attacker that just wants to do you harm.
 
#5 ·
In my private opinion: walking on and not commenting or instigating/escalating the siituation meets the duty to retreat clause. This would be a situation where I would use all force necessary to end the attack.
 
#6 ·
Disclaimer: the following is purely uneducated opinion and really should go through a lawyer for accuracy

I wouldn't think so, at least not in this scenario. Putting self in scenario. The BG was 'chasing' you w/ a knife. You draw and give verbal warning in an attempt to de-escalate. If he does stop, my next steps were to stay drawn and call LEOs. Does he stay there or does he turn around and go back home? If you say stop, he does, but doesn't show signs of leaving the situation, then you have reason to believe that you are still in physical danger, and thus are still protecting yourself by staying drawn. If he leaves, STILL call the LEOs, but if not in immediate threat, re-holster.


In GA, there is no such clause. On a side note.....i want to eat everything non-metallic in your avatar :D
 
#7 · (Edited)
someone charges me with a knife I'll do as I'm trained, if time allows I draw weapon and shoot as this is a threat to my life, if distance doesn't allow (should never happen with situational awareness right?) I've got to do whatever it takes to defend myself

as for the "attacker wasn't all there" part.....no...it makes no difference, an attack is an attack and I have to defend myself
If I draw and he turns around, and I'm allowed to create more distance and get on the phone then great

P.S. I've seen that episode twice, guy was an idiot liar or had mental issues or both
 
#8 ·
Well, I don't run as fast as I did when I was younger, and I don't want to be stabbed from behind. I was walking down the street, he came at me with a knife, BANG!
 
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#10 ·
If you are just using the COPS episode as a starting point for your scenario and the scenario really does have a fellow "charging me with a knife' and the perpetrator has entered within the 21 foot zone and he is truly charging, then I don't see any alternative than to immediately draw and fire to stop the imminent threat of bodily harm or death. Tueller drill shows what can happen there. If he was just screaming at me from the stairs across the street and coming down them but not really getting close, even if he had a knife, I would most likely have my hand on my weapon and be ready to draw but would first try to convince him that he really should just stay where he is or his day will get really bad, really quick. Then 911 gets called while never taking my eyes off him. It really depends on distance from the nutty guy and whether he is closing distance on me. I saw that COPS episode a few times and they never had video of what actually happened as far as a true "charging with the knife" did they? That's why I wanted to clarify what I would do in each scenario. I also grew up in NY and it would be very state dependent thing as to what I would do. My actions in Florida or Texas might be different than in NY. Heck, I've even read that in some states brandishing to avoid a violent encounter is even permitted.
 
#15 ·
I've seen that episode. That guy was a nutjob! If I were in that scenario, he would have been drawed down on and if he continued to advance he would have been shot.
 
#17 ·
GREAT! Glad you know what I am talking about. I guess my only reason to bring it up was the guy walking ended up not getting killed and he didn't have a gun or anything. Just wonder how ya'll would handle the situation. My favorite quote from the attacker was "you privacy rapist!". Too funnny
 
#16 ·
"And by the way, it was clear from the post arrest comments that the attacker wasn't all there. Does that make a difference?"

The shooter in AZ obviously wasn't "all there" but I don't think there'd have been any complaints it someone shot him.

I'm more afraid of a knife than a gun, and I'm not about to let someone charge me with a gun. Why would I not protect myself from a knnife?
 
#18 ·
I have knee problems, and can't run any distance. Even without that problem though, individual attacks me with a knife, I have a responsibility to myself to neutralize the threat. As to if the threat isn't "all there", in my opinion, it has no bearing on the situation., A crazy person will kill you just as dead as a sane one will.
 
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#23 ·
.....waiting for the day one of my COPS episodes becomes a thread topic on DC
:rofl:
 
#25 ·
SO obviously a fight or flight scenario. But if someone charges you with a knife (you are alone) and you have a gun do you run away and hope you are faster or pull the gun and put him down?

And by the way, it was clear from the post arrest comments that the attacker wasn't all there. Does that make a difference?
1: Yes, I'd run. At least until I'm at a safe distance where drawing and shooting may be an option. I'm most likely already going to be facing away from the attack if I'm walking past him. No time to turn and draw. Even if I get two hits before he's reached me, two little, underpowered .45 slugs aren't going to instantly incapacitate him. So getting away is the first option. If he charges as I'm facing his, yes, draw and fire.

2: No. Your life in danger is just that.
 
#26 ·
Is there A. O. J.? Can I safely escape? Can I safely deescalate the situation? If the answers are yes, no, no........ his mental status is of little concern to me. Depending on the distance, I might not be able to draw, fire and stop him before he gets to me. So there may be some hands on even after he is shot.
 
#27 ·
I'm fat (changing that as we speak) but still right now at my state, I"m too fat to try to outrun a person that is in halfway good shape. A knife have unlimited ammo, and in some cases, can do more damage than a gun. I will try to run away in hope that he/she would give up but if it gets to close for my level of safety then rounds would fly.
 
#28 ·
If someone charges you with a knife - ESPECIALLY if they are not all there - it's time to fire. Unless you're talking 50' away. But SD distances, forget it, he'll be on you in a heartbeat. And if it's SD distances and you try to run, he'll be knifing you in the back before you've hit the second step.

The weapon is to save your life. It's time to save it - - -
 
#29 ·
"Crazy guy charging at you with a knife" is something you can train for. I do.

First option is to employ run-fu. If it's inside Tueller Drill distance the gun won't help. OC spray will be too slow. Get a car or something between you and the attacker if possible. Draw and shoot is the last resort.
 
#38 ·
Part of the problem with specific instances and questions of Law is of course most of us are not attorneys. But it's also the nature of Law - which doesn't deal with examples but with abstract statements that define conditions, broad enough to be applicable to many situations - as APPLIED IN A COURT OF LAW. So, ultimately, what's legal is always somewhat dependent on what these people in this courtroom say and the evidence brought forward, challenged etc. and a specific group of people ultimately deciding what is true for THIS CASE.

In practice, the Law is always "applied Law".

However, just based on the circumstances the OP describes, it seems highly likely that the conditions of lethal SD action found in most areas would be adjudged to be present - and lethal action allowed. But in the end, that's just one opinion (mine) of what likely would happen. You could get more relevant opinions that mine - perhaps a known attorney in your area in the specialty of SD - with a proven track record. But even his opinion will be his opinion.
 
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#39 ·
Guy is walking down the street across from some apartments. A guy who lives in the apartments starts threatening the walker from his steps of the apartment. The walker keeps walking. The guy from the apartment keeps yelling "I'm gonna kill you, you privacy rapist" (lot of whackos out there) and then charges the guy with a knife. Ultimately in real life the walker was able to escape and the attacker went back home. The cops showed up and the walker ID'd the guy and the knife which the police found in his apartment.

SO obviously a fight or flight scenario. But if someone charges you with a knife (you are alone) and you have a gun do you run away and hope you are faster or pull the gun and put him down?

And by the way, it was clear from the post arrest comments that the attacker wasn't all there. Does that make a difference?


Gee, YA THINK?

In the scenario as described I would attempt to flee, while keeping an eye on the attacker. If he's faster than me or better endurance, which is quite possible when I feel he is not going to break off the chase, and manages to get within self defense range, 30 feet, I am drawing the gun as I turn and continue backing away, all the while yelling to draw attention from any witnesses that I was attempting to flee/desculate. If he continnues once he see's the gun he has now met all three A,O,J requirements in my mind and he will be in a gun fight, having brought a knife.
 
#40 ·
In Texas we have a "stand your ground" policy as far as self defense. This policy, however, was probably in practice before it was made law, much like our Castle Doctrine. I remember as a boy seeing on the news that a homeless man had attacked an office worker in downtown Houston. Another citizen came to his aid and pulled his concealed weapon, telling the attacker to back off. The homeless man charged the good samaritan and was promptly dropped with a couple of .45 rounds. No charges would be filed against the samaritan... who happened to be a Harris County Judge.

So, if I am threatened by a knife wielding attacker, I will pull my weapon. If I have time, I will utter a warning, but more than likely if he is charging at me, I will draw my weapon prepared to fire. And, if the sight of my firearm doesn't convince him that he has chosen the wrong victim, then I will fire as many times as necessary to stop the threat.
 
#41 ·
I saw that episode also,the guy was either mentally off,or had consumed some shrooms or sumpin else,I don't wanta get sliced and diced,if it reaches a point of shoot or be gutted I'm shooting and in a perfect world he will still be gripping the knife when LEO show up
 
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