What do you say, if anything, before you shoot

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Thread: What do you say, if anything, before you shoot

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Bye Bye-Good night!
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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    BANG , BANG , THUMP........"stop or I"ll shoot"
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  4. #33
    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtsr View Post
    The stats that I quoted came from the book "Deadly Force: Firearms and American Law Enforcement" by Chris McNab. The book is dated 2000. I did not see reference to the distance the officers were shooting from.

    This is no reflection on any officer or any training they may or may not go through. I can tell you this from personal experience; when what you are shooting at shoots back, the rate of fire is increased and time spent aiming is drastically reduced. Just watching some of the officer shooting episodes of COPS and some of the Youtube videos proves that a lot more rounds go downline than hit their target.
    I'll agree on that. While I was taught to aim, who knows what they'll do when the time comes. The way you brought up the stat though, comparing a BG shooting at what, five to eight feet, to LEOs only hitting a low percentage of what they are shooting at, which I'll guess is a greater distance, had me wondering what that distance was the stat came from.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I don't recall the latest figures I read, but I bet it is less than 12 feet.
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  6. #35
    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    That's amazing. I was thinking it would be more in situations of distance and with both parties seeking coverage. 12' ain't very far.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    If there is a need to use my gun, I don't see any need to have any discussion with them before hand.... it's obviously too late for words. If it's not, then to me the gun shouldn't be unholstered yet.
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  8. #37
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  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array airslot's Avatar
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    When it's time to shoot SHOOT! DON'T TALK
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  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtsr View Post
    ...[James] Yeager (of Tactical Response) and others say not to invite the BG to your gunfight and states that shooting someone in the back without notice is sometimes ethical. Others teach that you should always yell something like "Stop, drop the weapon." Not instructional but Crimson Trace in their videos show a scene where the GG yells at the BG and does not shoot until the BG, who has a shotgun turns.
    I have a question for the OP (tomtsr)... In this very specifically outlined scenario, why on earth would you want to say anything before shooting?

    James Yeager makes a very salient point. In this situation, you not only have your life on the line, but that of another totally innocent person (the store clerk) whose lives hang in the balance. Shots have already been fired, directed at the poor store clerk. Why on earth would you want to jeopardize your only opportunity of complete and total surprise during what is going to be your most heightened moment of pure and raw fear in your life. Adrenaline will be coursing through your veins at probably close to 160 beats per minute and you are most likely going to be shaking to the point where you may not even be able to hold your gun on target. Are you are suggesting you should give the gunman a fair opportunity to go ahead and kill either the store clerk, you, or both of you?

    You really need to understand that as a civilian, and not being a law enforcement officer, you are not required to issue a verbal challenge before employing deadly force when deadly force is warranted. If you have some inner moral desire to give the guy a fair opportunity to kill you, then go right ahead. But in this case, there is another innocent person whose life is also on the line. The one who you are attempting to save. Wouldn't it be ironic if it was your remark/command/verbal challenge that ended up getting the person killed you were trying to protect?

    A gunman comes into a store demanding money, shoots at the innocent clerk... If you're not clear on the fact that lethal force is authorized in that situation, you might not be ready to carry a gun. JMHO YMMV
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  11. #40
    Member Array tomtsr's Avatar
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    Bark'n,

    Sorry if I gave the impression that I disagreed with Yeager. I don't. I have heard a lot of instructors saying that you should. I was just curoius what the majority would do.

    The first words that I personally would say would be to a 911 operator telling them that I just shot a robber, or ask are you alright to the clerk.
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  12. #41
    Member Array Buckj's Avatar
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    if they are shooting...my mouth is closed (for better aim) while i am shooting...

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I have a question for the OP (tomtsr)... In this very specifically outlined scenario, why on earth would you want to say anything before shooting?

    James Yeager makes a very salient point. In this situation, you not only have your life on the line, but that of another totally innocent person (the store clerk) whose lives hang in the balance. Shots have already been fired, directed at the poor store clerk. Why on earth would you want to jeopardize your only opportunity of complete and total surprise during what is going to be your most heightened moment of pure and raw fear in your life. Adrenaline will be coursing through your veins at probably close to 160 beats per minute and you are most likely going to be shaking to the point where you may not even be able to hold your gun on target. Are you are suggesting you should give the gunman a fair opportunity to go ahead and kill either the store clerk, you, or both of you?

    You really need to understand that as a civilian, and not being a law enforcement officer, you are not required to issue a verbal challenge before employing deadly force when deadly force is warranted. If you have some inner moral desire to give the guy a fair opportunity to kill you, then go right ahead. But in this case, there is another innocent person whose life is also on the line. The one who you are attempting to save. Wouldn't it be ironic if it was your remark/command/verbal challenge that ended up getting the person killed you were trying to protect?

    A gunman comes into a store demanding money, shoots at the innocent clerk... If you're not clear on the fact that lethal force is authorized in that situation, you might not be ready to carry a gun. JMHO YMMV
    I'll agree with this!
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  14. #43
    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    I would yell indeed, at the dispatcher as I go out the back door/ window.
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  15. #44
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    As the scenario is posted...

    Not going to say anything to draw attention to myself. My actions will be to do what I need to do to get home safe,. If my actions save the taxpayers a lengthy trial and prison housing expense, all the better.
    Sticks

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    See also Sheep

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtsr View Post
    I ask because there are instructors in both camps. Yeager and others say not to invite the BG to your gunfight and states that shooting someone in the back without notice is sometimes ethical. #1 Others teach that you should always yell something like "Stop, drop the weapon."

    #2 Not instructional but Crimson Trace in their videos show a scene where the GG yells at the BG and does not shoot until the BG, who has a shotgun turns.
    #1 Who are these "others" you speak of?

    I'm very interested in who is teaching how to get yourself killed.

    #2 Crimson trace is selling a product that depends on marketing, and marketing to the "the laser will show I'm serious" market.

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