What do you say, if anything, before you shoot - Page 4

What do you say, if anything, before you shoot

This is a discussion on What do you say, if anything, before you shoot within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by tomtsr Bark'n, The first words that I personally would say would be to a 911 operator telling them that I just shot ...

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Thread: What do you say, if anything, before you shoot

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtsr View Post
    Bark'n, The first words that I personally would say would be to a 911 operator telling them that I just shot a robber, or ask are you alright to the clerk.
    Remember your 5th amendment rights .... be careful what and how you say it.
    sigmanluke likes this.
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  2. #47
    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    Shots fired. Nothing else to say but return fire. Easy!
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]

  3. #48
    Member Array tomtsr's Avatar
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    MitchellCT,

    I will go back through my materials and provide some of the names. Please be patient.

    That being said, even Yeager states in the early stages of his class "Fighting Pistol" that you should always yell or shout Stop or something like that. Not that he is contradicting himself, just that the situation warranted a different action. And that was the premis of the question.

    According to the Bio on Personal Defense TV, George Wehby claims to be a professional firearms trainer, he is a big proponent of shouting before shooting. And even a casual viewing of Personal Defense TV will be clear on that. And before you or anyone else fires a response, NO, I do not use PDTV as a source of training. I do, however, watch these type of programs rather than the Hollywood sets.

    The part of the question or statement of trainers was not intended as bringing the light on a particular trainer or trainers at all and probably should have been left out. I only used Yeager to lend credibility to the statement as Yeager is well known and was the most adamant about his position.

    I am sure that if I framed my question as "some on both sides", I would still be typing this response.

    I am not new to firearms or training, but I am relatively new to forums and will learn how to frame questions and senarios without muddying the waters. My appologies.
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  4. #49
    Member Array tomtsr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Remember your 5th amendment rights .... be careful what and how you say it.
    Good advice!
    Train like your life depends on it, because it does.

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  5. #50
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    Clean up in aisle one?
    If he is already killing people it is a little late for conversation.
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  6. #51
    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    I don't think that in a high stress situation, where your life and those around you is at danger, you will have much time to think about all this. Therefore, instead of worrying about theory, best case scenarios and "what ifs", focus your available time on getting more range time, take some defensive pistol courses, practice drawing your handgun quickly and shooting from different positions/scenarios (from cover, seating down, on your knees, on your back, on your stomach, at night, etc.). Sometimes we tend to spend WAY too much time over analyzing things like calibers, ammo, holsters, gear, sights, lasers, lights, etc. that we forget that what is most important is to be able to draw your gun quickly, make all your shots count (shot placement) and being able to reload quickly. If you need these skills, I suggest joining a Defensive Pistol Sport like IDPA, GSSF or IPSC which will help you improve dramatically, will get you shooting more frequently and is a ton of fun.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]

  7. #52
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    There are most definitely times in which it is appropriate to issue a verbal challenge! No question. However, there are also plenty of times in which issuing verbal challenge is not appropriate to do so. In fact, issuing a challenge in certain situations as I pointed out above, could be a very foolish thing to do.

    In this narrowly defined specific scenario, I believe that it is, in fact, one of those times where it is foolish to try and issue a challenge, and in my opinion it would be tactically unwise to do so.

    The bottom line is, that there are always going to be situations where it may be prudent to issue a challenge in an attempt to keep from shooting someone, and on the other side of the coin, there will be times when it is a very bad idea.

    What's important for the civilian ccw holder to know and understand, is that according to the law... You are not required to issue a verbal challenge before employing deadly force, when deadly force is warranted. It's all a matter of whether it would be wise to do so, or not depending on the situation at hand.
    tcox4freedom likes this.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #53
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    To quote the great philosophizer Tuco (The good, The Bad, and The Ugly)

    "When it is time to shoot.....shoot.....don't talk"
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I have a question for the OP (tomtsr)... In this very specifically outlined scenario, why on earth would you want to say anything before shooting?

    James Yeager makes a very salient point. In this situation, you not only have your life on the line, but that of another totally innocent person (the store clerk) whose lives hang in the balance. Shots have already been fired, directed at the poor store clerk. Why on earth would you want to jeopardize your only opportunity of complete and total surprise during what is going to be your most heightened moment of pure and raw fear in your life. Adrenaline will be coursing through your veins at probably close to 160 beats per minute and you are most likely going to be shaking to the point where you may not even be able to hold your gun on target. Are you are suggesting you should give the gunman a fair opportunity to go ahead and kill either the store clerk, you, or both of you?

    You really need to understand that as a civilian, and not being a law enforcement officer, you are not required to issue a verbal challenge before employing deadly force when deadly force is warranted. If you have some inner moral desire to give the guy a fair opportunity to kill you, then go right ahead. But in this case, there is another innocent person whose life is also on the line. The one who you are attempting to save. Wouldn't it be ironic if it was your remark/command/verbal challenge that ended up getting the person killed you were trying to protect?

    A gunman comes into a store demanding money, shoots at the innocent clerk... If you're not clear on the fact that lethal force is authorized in that situation, you might not be ready to carry a gun. JMHO YMMV

    Bingo.
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  10. #55
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    I really have not prepared a speech to use on BGs. I will have to work on it.
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  11. #56
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    Using my best ventriloquist imitation, I'd have the bag of potato chips on the display beside him tell him "Drop the gun PUNK!!". If he didn't immediately comply I'd shoot him in the left knee, if that didn't work, the right knee would go!

    Seriously, if it comes to a shooting situation, I'm using every advantage I have, and not giving up any.
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  12. #57
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtsr View Post
    MitchellCT,

    I will go back through my materials and provide some of the names. Please be patient.

    That being said, even Yeager states in the early stages of his class "Fighting Pistol" that you should always yell or shout Stop or something like that. Not that he is contradicting himself, just that the situation warranted a different action. And that was the premis of the question.

    I've done that class, and he does that to make sure that anyone who may come forward as a witness will be able to say (hopefully...) that they heard someone yell stop, then their was shooting...it's because people rarely see the whole incident, but think they do, and you want to add one more sensory input to their memory if possible...otherwise you get well intentioned people coming by to the cops saying "Officer, I saw it all..." when they didn't...

    According to the Bio on Personal Defense TV, George Wehby claims to be a professional firearms trainer, he is a big proponent of shouting before shooting. And even a casual viewing of Personal Defense TV will be clear on that. And before you or anyone else fires a response, NO, I do not use PDTV as a source of training. I do, however, watch these type of programs rather than the Hollywood sets.

    The part of the question or statement of trainers was not intended as bringing the light on a particular trainer or trainers at all and probably should have been left out. I only used Yeager to lend credibility to the statement as Yeager is well known and was the most adamant about his position.

    He's also a proponent of not getting yourself killed when its time to bushwack someone, because sometimes it isn't a good tactical move to warn people you are about to bust a corbon into their mellon. Mindset, tactics, skill and gear...

    I am sure that if I framed my question as "some on both sides", I would still be typing this response.

    I am not new to firearms or training, but I am relatively new to forums and will learn how to frame questions and senarios without muddying the waters. My appologies.
    Come over to getoffthex.com which is Yeager's board.

  13. #58
    Member Array tomtsr's Avatar
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    MitchellCT,

    I am with you on the highlights and agree 100% He makes that perfectly clear in the class. I am a fan of his.

    As to getoffthex.com, I am a member and love it.
    Train like your life depends on it, because it does.

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  14. #59
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    There are most definitely times in which it is appropriate to issue a verbal challenge! No question. However, there are also plenty of times in which issuing verbal challenge is not appropriate to do so. In fact, issuing a challenge in certain situations as I pointed out above, could be a very foolish thing to do....
    I agree with this.

    From the back of the store, I would probably not be able to see if someone was actually hit by the bandit's gunshot if the bandit was visible. If the firearm was level when it went off, I'd have to assume he was shooting /at/ someone. At this point, well, time to shoot or hide. Alternatively, if I heard the shot and saw someone fall, again time to shoot or hide. Saying something is too likely to get him to duck for cover and start shooting at me, and that's not something I care to experience.

  15. #60
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    Get some!

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