What do you say, if anything, before you shoot

This is a discussion on What do you say, if anything, before you shoot within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If you carry you place yourself in Harms Way as you chose to carry for self protection and to protect others! As the HOODIE has ...

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Thread: What do you say, if anything, before you shoot

  1. #106
    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
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    If you carry you place yourself in Harms Way as you chose to carry for self protection and to protect others! As the HOODIE has already chosen to shoot the store clerks you have to 2 options flight or fight. If you fight you have no legal responsibility to challenge the HOODIE, however the challenge would be "DON'T MOVE!" per Mas Ayoob. However, mine would be "DON"T MOVE!", Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, and reload! Then wait for the LE to get there! This is a summer time response as in the winter I carry a P30 with 15 rounds of 9mm +P+.


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  3. #107
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    I didn't read all the posts so I apologize if it's been said but..... if you really have to shoot....shoot, don't talk.
    Eagleks likes this.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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  4. #108
    Member Array GunByte's Avatar
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    Only once I said something and it was, "forgot the XXX safety". Only took an instant to put the gun off safe though and no harm done. Now I carry guns with safeties but what I like to call redundant safeties because the gun is safe to carry without them. Many are added to meet state laws for instance or the manual safeties added to Glocks. I like the safety for holstering and storing my guns. Once in the holster the safety is disengaged so I will never have to utter these words again.
    hamlet likes this.

  5. #109
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunByte View Post
    Only once I said something and it was, "forgot the XXX safety". Only took an instant to put the gun off safe though and no harm done. Now I carry guns with safeties but what I like to call redundant safeties because the gun is safe to carry without them. Many are added to meet state laws for instance or the manual safeties added to Glocks. I like the safety for holstering and storing my guns. Once in the holster the safety is disengaged so I will never have to utter these words again.
    That is an interesting approach to Glocks - never heard it before.

  6. #110
    Member Array MoMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I have a question for the OP (tomtsr)... In this very specifically outlined scenario, why on earth would you want to say anything before shooting?

    James Yeager makes a very salient point. In this situation, you not only have your life on the line, but that of another totally innocent person (the store clerk) whose lives hang in the balance. Shots have already been fired, directed at the poor store clerk. Why on earth would you want to jeopardize your only opportunity of complete and total surprise during what is going to be your most heightened moment of pure and raw fear in your life. Adrenaline will be coursing through your veins at probably close to 160 beats per minute and you are most likely going to be shaking to the point where you may not even be able to hold your gun on target. Are you are suggesting you should give the gunman a fair opportunity to go ahead and kill either the store clerk, you, or both of you?

    You really need to understand that as a civilian, and not being a law enforcement officer, you are not required to issue a verbal challenge before employing deadly force when deadly force is warranted. If you have some inner moral desire to give the guy a fair opportunity to kill you, then go right ahead. But in this case, there is another innocent person whose life is also on the line. The one who you are attempting to save. Wouldn't it be ironic if it was your remark/command/verbal challenge that ended up getting the person killed you were trying to protect?

    A gunman comes into a store demanding money, shoots at the innocent clerk... If you're not clear on the fact that lethal force is authorized in that situation, you might not be ready to carry a gun. JMHO YMMV
    I don't see how this could be answered any better than this!!

    MO

  7. #111
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtsr View Post
    Rule #4 On The Forum Rules Page.
    4. As a family-friendly forum, we ask that you keep your language clean, exactly as we hope you would when addressing respected elders. Creative workarounds (the use of special characters to replace some letters) on language are not allowed. Violators of this rule will be warned once; those repeatedly breaking this rule will have their accounts permanently revoked. NOTE: Links to off site material will be held to our family-friendly standard, as well.


    NOTE: There have been three language rule violations in this thread already. Go outside and yell the foul language if you feel like it but, DON'T type it here.


    Scenario:

    It is 1:00 in the afternoon, you are in a semi industrial area in a convenience store. You are in the back area of the store picking up a loaf of bread that your wife asked you to bring home. You are the only customer in the store. There are 2 clerks in the store behind the counter.

    A man in a hoodie with dark glasses comes through the door and starts screaming "Give me the money" and shoots at one of the clerks. BG hasn't seen you and you position yourself for a clear shot. You can take out the BG without covering the clerks.

    What do you do next? Do you shoot first so as not to lessen your advantage? Do you shout something?

    I ask because there are instructors in both camps. Yeager and others say not to invite the BG to your gunfight and states that shooting someone in the back without notice is sometimes ethical. Others teach that you should always yell something like "Stop, drop the weapon." Not instructional but Crimson Trace in their videos show a scene where the GG yells at the BG and does not shoot until the BG, who has a shotgun turns.


    I say: Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

  8. #112
    Member Array oldcurmudgeo's Avatar
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    Once I saw an old western movie.

    Hero in bath tub full of water.

    BG storms in the room, pointing gun at hero, tells him that he is going to kill him.

    Hero raises hand out of water...BAM!!! Kills BG.

    Hero had Peacemaker in the tub.

    First words of our hero..."You talk too much."

    Never forgot that advice.

    In the situation described by the OP, anything you say would be talking too much and you might end up like this BG.

  9. #113
    Member Array Snider's Avatar
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    Since the BG already fired, no talking is needed, and has already been pointed out, nobody can hear anything at this point anyway (a shotgun was discharged indoors, if everyone isn't already bleeding from both ears things are going quite nicely).

    After firing upon the BG, I would be seeking the best cover possible in case he had any friends. I do play inordinate amounts of video games, some paintball, and every time I've felt that I've won a clear victory, someone manages to headshot me out of nowhere. I've learned to be glad I won against my target, and try desperately to not suddenly lose myself in the moment. My routine is to fire, seek cover and reload as needed.

  10. #114
    Member Array guardmt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldcurmudgeo View Post
    Once I saw an old western movie.

    Hero in bath tub full of water.

    BG storms in the room, pointing gun at hero, tells him that he is going to kill him.

    Hero raises hand out of water...BAM!!! Kills BG.

    Hero had Peacemaker in the tub.

    First words of our hero..."You talk too much."

    Never forgot that advice.

    In the situation described by the OP, anything you say would be talking too much and you might end up like this BG.
    The Ugly half hero maybe lol, The Good, Bad and the Ugly...
    “What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pike

  11. #115
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guardmt View Post
    The Ugly half hero maybe lol, The Good, Bad and the Ugly...
    So, that's why you came to Tuco. It doesn't matter, I'll kill them all.

  12. #116
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I see a warning/challenge as a normally unmandated method of providing the individual creating an unjustified lethal threat the opportunity to cease his activity, thereby eliminating the need of implementing lethal force against him, thus saving his own life. This is predicated on the ability to do this without increasing the hazard to those involved, outside of the individual presenting the threat.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  13. #117
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    I say: Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
    Hey, I know that movie...
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  14. #118
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    (Not knowing the store layout, whether more BGs are lurking, etc.) I'd likely believe that my life was in danger & make sure that that 'clear shot' allowed for a maximum of barriers between the BG & myself, & that the background contained no innocents...DROP IT!! Bang.

    That might pass muster with Minnesota laws.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  15. #119
    Member Array hdsteve69's Avatar
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    I would prepare myself to shoot and with my gun in hand and aimed at the bg I would call 911 and make sure I tell the 911 operator that I am legally armed ,if the bg hears me on the phone as soon as he turned to me I would shoot him .That way there is no doubt I was defending myself and in fear for my own life. We all have to remember we are not carrying to protect others ,marshall law does not exist, at least not where I live .

  16. #120
    Senior Member Array Hot Wing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    If I was to yell something it would be at the same time I was shooting. The yell would be to alert others as to what was going on, not to give the BG any warning.
    Me too

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