Hospital Situational Question

Hospital Situational Question

This is a discussion on Hospital Situational Question within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok this question has several layers so please bear with me. 1. I could not find anything in the WV Concealed Carry Banning Carry in ...

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Thread: Hospital Situational Question

  1. #1
    Member Array JBJ9mm's Avatar
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    Hospital Situational Question

    Ok this question has several layers so please bear with me.

    1. I could not find anything in the WV Concealed Carry Banning Carry in a hospital. If I am wrong there please correct me but for this scenario assume this is correct.

    Now to the scenario:

    a family member is in the hospital for an extended period of time. This family member also has a violent and abusive spouse that is intent on causing harm to your sick family member or other members of the family. Now you are a daily CC with a legal permit. You have CC'd everytime you have visited. However on this day, this trip the violent family member has decided to "attack". You do not know the severity of his armament, all you know is he is hitting the person hospitalized. Security has been contacted and has not responded.

    Q2. Do you intervene

    Lets say you do intervene and find he does have a gun and seems intend on killing the present family members (or so he says in his rage)

    Q3. Do you draw to hold him at bay until the proper authorities arrive? Do you fire is aggression is shown?

    General question would be "what do you do?"
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    I'm going to thump him about the head, if he wants to take it to a higher level I can do that also.
    Hiram25
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    Wow, interesting scenario. When you write, "security has been contacted but has not responded," do you actually mean "not yet" responded? Or do you mean they will not come?

    I think this is one of those peculiar situations where I would try to intervene and draw the attacker's attention and anger to myself, away from the helpless patient, and just hope that others arrive before serious damage gets done.

    A hospital isn't a particularly good place for bullets to be flying, not that there is ever a good place for that except the range. Loud commotion will certainly bring other visitors and staff if not security.

    The man who caused this fuss may well deserve to be arrested, or placed on a mental hold. I'm assuming both patient and angry spouse are elderly. The angry spouse sounds like he has something loose upstairs. No one in their right mind attacks a hospitalized patient. And, there are laws that make attacks on the elderly more serious than usual.

    All of that said, hospitals are actually dangerous places. Too many people from all strata of society, including former felons, are there as patients and visitors. Moreover, visitors are often very emotionally stressed by everything that is going on around them so tempers are frayed to start with.

    This is definitely one of those situations where pepper would be really handy if it could be used without killing the patient if she got a whiff by accident. Oh, one more thing, if oxygen is in play, using a firearm could make for a spectacular incident. So, more than usual if that is possible, the gun needs to stay out of play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    I'm going to thump him about the head, if he wants to take it to a higher level I can do that also.
    Proper answer but not everyone has that ability.

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    Member Array JBJ9mm's Avatar
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    Unfortunately in this situation the "players" are in their 40's. The assailant is clearly not right in the head.

    You are very right about the oxygen.

    Security at the hospital is very poor to say the very least, once contacted with the severity of the situation there is a chance they would not respond.
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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Its a family member, you intervene. I see nothing to indicate that either the victim or assailant are elderly. He is hitting (concentrating) on the patient in bed, pick your shot (physically not literally).
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBJ9mm View Post
    Unfortunately in this situation the "players" are in their 40's. The assailant is clearly not right in the head.

    You are very right about the oxygen.

    Security at the hospital is very poor to say the very least, once contacted with the severity of the situation there is a chance they would not respond.

    Is this a hypothetical of what might happen, or has this happened? I'm asking because a man who attacks his wife when she is in a hospital bed belongs in jail. A report should be made to the police, backed by witnesses, backed by the testimony of whoever called security, backed by the patient's testimony if she is at all able to speak.

    An order should be obtained to keep this man out of the hospital (based on his past poor conduct) and away from the patient.

    From what you have said it sounds like you are talking about your sister and BIL or daughter and son in-law. Either way, it is your job to protect the lady from this maniac with every "weapon" at your disposal; and that includes police reports, protective orders; no-trespass orders from the hospital. Anything and everything. If there were enough witnesses (and especially if there is a history or a record, try to get the idiot locked up for everyone's good.

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Is this a hypothetical of what might happen, or has this happened? I'm asking because a man who attacks his wife when she is in a hospital bed belongs in jail. A report should be made to the police, backed by witnesses, backed by the testimony of whoever called security, backed by the patient's testimony if she is at all able to speak.

    An order should be obtained to keep this man out of the hospital (based on his past poor conduct) and away from the patient.

    From what you have said it sounds like you are talking about your sister and BIL or daughter and son in-law. Either way, it is your job to protect the lady from this maniac with every "weapon" at your disposal; and that includes police reports, protective orders; no-trespass orders from the hospital. Anything and everything. If there were enough witnesses (and especially if there is a history or a record, try to get the idiot locked up for everyone's good.
    Do you believe "an order" is going to keep this type of individual out? Just asking...

  9. #9
    Member Array JBJ9mm's Avatar
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    This is a situation that is boiling.

    There is a protective order at the hospital to protect the patient. However this person seems bent on causing issues which is causing a lot of fear in the family unit. He has made threats to the tenth degree. However the local police have been content to stay out of the situation even after many calls and reports. Claiming "there is not an issue yet so there is nothing we can do".

    It is a very unfortunate situation that is running parallel to the severe illness however this person was and is an abuser and feels as though he has "lost control" of the patient so "he will get it back"
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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    OC spray would be far more appropriate and less likely to cause excessive collateral damage. You have to meet force with like force, you aren't LEO so you can't jump the chain in the levels of force.

    Unless they escalate to the use of deadly force you'd have to be real sure of what your state laws are in regards to the use of deadly force before you introduce it.

  11. #11
    Member Array jemmy's Avatar
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    What does the patient want? Do they want this individual to stay away? Are they willing to press charges? You would have to have someone with the patient 24 - 7 to make sure they were safe. They can not go back to that situation when they leave the hospital either. Is there a safe house for abused spouses in your area?

    If you are there and this person come in behaving violently you have to call 911 immediately and leave the line open so they can hear everything that is going on. I would think that unless this person draws a gun that you using yours would have to be the very last resort in a hospital.

    In our state we are not allowed to carry in hospitals. Not that those with criminal intent pay any attention to those rules.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Hummmm, they would be stopped, so to me it seems only a matter of how... and the level of force required.
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    Member Array JBJ9mm's Avatar
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    Honestly I would have no interest in ever being forced to use deadly force. I am throwing the situation out for advice / possibly experience and learning. My hope is that the police will step in and solve the situation. With that said...

    Spray does sound like a very valid option and I will look further into that. I have very little doubt with a hand to hand situation i could safely diffuse any situations. The problem I am running into is that he has been described as "armed" to what degree i am not sure.

    I have read the law pretty in depth and can not find anything prohibiting hospitals in WV. I am Leary to test this but I almost feel that I should be prepared with equal force.

    Again my honest hope is that after the hospital stay is over (with no altercations *fingers crossed*) she will be safe with us. I just want to ensure that I am being not only safe but smart.
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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBJ9mm View Post
    Honestly I would have no interest in ever being forced to use deadly force. I am throwing the situation out for advice / possibly experience and learning. My hope is that the police will step in and solve the situation. With that said...

    Spray does sound like a very valid option and I will look further into that. I have very little doubt with a hand to hand situation i could safely diffuse any situations. The problem I am running into is that he has been described as "armed" to what degree i am not sure.

    I have read the law pretty in depth and can not find anything prohibiting hospitals in WV. I am Leary to test this but I almost feel that I should be prepared with equal force.

    Again my honest hope is that after the hospital stay is over (with no altercations *fingers crossed*) she will be safe with us. I just want to ensure that I am being not only safe but smart.
    You may want to make sure that the hospital doesn't fall under the definition of "Vocational Education Building" since most hospitals are teaching hospitals.

    The laws you need to also know inside and out are the laws governing the use of deadly force for WV.

    The OC spray would be better than going hands on just due to the fact the closer you get the easier it would be for them to use a weapon such as a knife or other close range item.

  15. #15
    Member Array Bigkahuna's Avatar
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    As a Hospital Administrator I can tell you that this is one of the scenarios that we plan for. In most cases the staff would be all over this guy like white on rice as soon as it became clear he was getting violent. The police would be called immediately while the staff restrained the individual.

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