Went "Code Red" in Germany (No Firearm)

This is a discussion on Went "Code Red" in Germany (No Firearm) within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yesterday, my wife and I were coming back on the regional train from Karlsruhe when a group of 4 drunken high school students (ages 16 ...

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Thread: Went "Code Red" in Germany (No Firearm)

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    Went "Code Red" in Germany (No Firearm)

    Yesterday, my wife and I were coming back on the regional train from Karlsruhe when a group of 4 drunken high school students (ages 16 - 18) boarded the train at one of the stops. They were speaking very loud and acting aggressively so I went to code yellow immediately. Then, as we approached one of the train's stops, an old lady stood up from her seat and walked towards the exit, since it was her stop, but it was precisely where the young lads were located. They began insulting her very offensively, pushing her around, mocking her and would not let her reach the exit of the train. She was obviously very affected, screaming and crying. I was shocked that no one went to her aid. I then went to code orange and started debating whether to interfere. Then as soon as the train's doors opened, the men started pushing the old lady violently and they pushed her very strongly through the doors and the lady landed face first on the train ramp. That's when I knew I had seen enough. Mind that I am 30 years old, 6'2", 225 pounds and a brown belt in Kyokushin Karate. I was also carrying a Spyderco UK Pen Knife and Sabre Red pepper spray.

    Anyhow, I stood up and told the boys in German to get off the train immediately before I called the cops. They laughed and one of the boys approached me in an aggressive manner, so I proceeded to spray him in the face with a 2 second burst of pepper spray in the face. He went down holding his face and screaming. Therefore, the other three boys ran towards me. I then sprayed a second boy on the face with another burst and pushed the other through the doors of the train. The other stood there scared and then just exited the train. Two police officers rushed towards the train and took the boys away and another police officer was already attending the old lady's abrasions in her face. I have to admit, even though I acted properly to defend an innocent victim, I was scared that the German Police would find some excuse to charge me and arrest me since the gun laws here are ridiculous. Well, I was shocked when the police officer shook my hand and told me "Danke Schön Herren!" which means "Thank you Gentleman" and then a few passengers clapped their hands in gratitude.

    Ok I know that I exposed myself by confronting four attackers without a handgun or at least a baton, but I just felt that I had to do something to help that lady and teach those boys a lesson. A good old saying just kept circling in my head: "It only takes for good people to do nothing, for evail to prevail."

    Anyways, just wanted to share my self-defense experience here in Germany.
    Kerby, bunker, jag06 and 12 others like this.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]

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  3. #2
    Ex Member Array Kerby's Avatar
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    Good for you, Glad you were not hurt!

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    You did the right thing. Class move defending her honor. Youth has no respect anymore
    TVJ and RevolvingMag like this.

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    Member Array Timezoneguy's Avatar
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    If we all just did a little to let these pukes know that their behaviour is not ok I think we could stem the flow of crime. these boys un checked would most likley progress to more and more violent acts. If their behaviour was challenged early hopefully violent behaviours will be be prevented in the future.
    In a gun fight, you can not miss fast enough, to catch up.

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    Member Array Nine O Four's Avatar
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    Seems like you handled it well.

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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Good job alachner. I hope the lesson you gave these punks was followed up by more lessons from the Polizei.

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    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Great job , well done!

    What would have happened if you didn't have the pepper spray but instead had a gun?
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

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    Senior Member Array GoBigOrange's Avatar
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    way to do the right thing! Always do what is right!

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    Thumbs up

    Well done.
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    Member Array Hkchris's Avatar
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    Good job stepping in. Sorry to say that what probably saved you with the Polizei is that they actually did assault the elderly lady.
    I'm not a big fan of Karlsruhe. I seem to get flashed by their speed cameras every time I venture that way.

    I had a similar situation after the world cup exhibition game between Poland and the U.S. They got handled by a couple of Americans until about 15 Polizei and their batons showed up. All ways good because there were enough witnesses and the main Soldier involved commander just happened to be on the same bus and witness the entire episode.

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    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    Great job , well done!

    What would have happened if you didn't have the pepper spray but instead had a gun?
    Well, I would have probably proceeded the same way but with punches and kicks since they were young men and were unarmed so using a gun would be unnecessary force. Nonetheless, in the end I would have been arrested by the Polizei for having a firearm since concealed carry in Germany is not allowed (unless you are a politician, an undercover/plain clothes officer or a celebrity) and as a foreign resident I am also not allowed to purchase or own a firearm.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]

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    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timezoneguy View Post
    If we all just did a little to let these pukes know that their behaviour is not ok I think we could stem the flow of crime. these boys un checked would most likley progress to more and more violent acts. If their behaviour was challenged early hopefully violent behaviours will be be prevented in the future.
    Sometimes these punks just need a good beating and lesson to straighten their lives. If no one stops their behaviour, they will become more and more violent and gain confidence of their actions until they become very dangerous and a threat to other citizens. Therefore, I hope they at least learned their lesson.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]

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    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    Outstanding job! You did the right thing and handled it very well.
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    Member Array Hkchris's Avatar
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    My friends wife is German. She has her German shooting card and owns firearms. When his neighbors house was robbed he asked the Polizei what would happen if they defended their house using a firearm. He was told that even if being attacked and used a gun he would likely end up in jail.

    U.S. military members can take the hunters course or sports shooting course and by firearms while stationed here. I have not heard of any cases of anyone using one of these guns in a self defense situation.

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I commend your taking of the moral high ground, even at personal risk.
    Harryball likes this.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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