7-11 Robbery on Video - Page 3

7-11 Robbery on Video

This is a discussion on 7-11 Robbery on Video within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; DD, The odds are againsts you from the start at 3 to 1. You are taken totally by surprise. If you put one shot on ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Cool

    DD,

    The odds are againsts you from the start at 3 to 1. You are taken totally by surprise. If you put one shot on each of the moving targets and they are one shot stops then you are way over the top. Jim Cirrilo and the members of the NYPD stakeout squad were waiting for the BG's and they were carrying everything from shotguns to .45 auto's and numerous handguns each and they didn't always get instant incapacitating shots. You are face down on the ground with two BG's in one direction and one in another. You are entering into a gunfight with 3 armed BG's who appear to have an idea of what they are doing in regards to their plans and have completed them in 35 seconds. During force on force training with multiple BG's most of us do not get hits every time we pull the trigger and we are firing multiple shots per BG and those hits are not all CNS hits and we are being shot at and hit. During timed reactive target training with live ammunition the odds are better because the stress level is lower and no one is shooting simmunitions back at you but again multiple shots per target including hostage scenario targets and not all shots are CNS shots.

    So my personal opinion and it is only my opinion is that it would take more than a 5 shot snub or a .380 pistol to successfully deal with the robbery and the 3 BG's that actually happened and the way it happened with the limited video information we saw. All bets are off if they start executing the clerk or those laying on the floor. That's why I referred to it as a worse case scenario.

    Just for information purposes I carry a Glock 19 or a Glock 23 off duty with a Diamondback .380 BUG and in that situation I would want a shotgun.

    OS
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    DD,

    The odds are againsts you from the start at 3 to 1. You are taken totally by surprise. If you put one shot on each of the moving targets and they are one shot stops then you are way over the top. Jim Cirrilo and the members of the NYPD stakeout squad were waiting for the BG's and they were carrying everything from shotguns to .45 auto's and numerous handguns each and they didn't always get instant incapacitating shots. You are face down on the ground with two BG's in one direction and one in another. You are entering into a gunfight with 3 armed BG's who appear to have an idea of what they are doing in regards to their plans and have completed them in 35 seconds. During force on force training with multiple BG's most of us do not get hits every time we pull the trigger and we are firing multiple shots per BG and those hits are not all CNS hits and we are being shot at and hit. During timed reactive target training with live ammunition the odds are better because the stress level is lower and no one is shooting simmunitions back at you but again multiple shots per target including hostage scenario targets and not all shots are CNS shots.

    So my personal opinion and it is only my opinion is that it would take more than a 5 shot snub or a .380 pistol to successfully deal with the robbery and the 3 BG's that actually happened and the way it happened with the limited video information we saw. All bets are off if they start executing the clerk or those laying on the floor. That's why I referred to it as a worse case scenario.

    Just for information purposes I carry a Glock 19 or a Glock 23 off duty with a Diamondback .380 BUG and in that situation I would want a shotgun.

    OS
    Now you're talking about the shooter's abilities. I just finished saying that my abilities will not clear that situation. However, it has nothing to do with the caliber of the gun. If one is more comfortable with a .380 than with a .45, I assure you, the .380 will get the job done. I've seen professionals do it.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deafdave3 View Post
    First of all, not all .380's are six shot. Some are seven, eight, nine, or 10... upwards to 15.

    Secondly, a very close friend of mine, who is a Concealed Carry instructor actually stopped an assassination attempt on his client with just four shots of a .380.

    My apologies, Sir, but I beg to differ: the .380 is not inadequate.

    BUT! In this situation... I would be lying down and hoping they won't hurt me. If I take actions into my own hands, I probably will get hurt. I'm not confident enough of my abilities to take on three professionals.
    The .380 at best is a BUG. Sorry, Im glad your friend made out ok, thats always good. However, in THIS scenario, and THIS scenario alone, is what I was making reference to. You can beg to differ on the .380 all day. There is a reason Police carry what they carry, and there regular duty arms are not .380 ( A BUG yes ) Sorry, Just my .02 BTW what do you carry?
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  4. #34
    Member Array Timezoneguy's Avatar
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    Guantes, I get your point. What I did not make clear is that someone charging through the door of a convience store may simply need a bathroom really bad. Seeing them comming is a smart thing to watch for but it will take at least some time to recognize their intentions. A gun in hand eliminates lots of other options that would normally be considered. I, like you have long since moved past the "what am I willing to do and when am I willing to do it" conversation in my head. I'm just saying that I expect persons busting through the front door will likley have a drop on you simply because you have not recieved enough information in less than one second to make life and death decesions.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    So what do you think you would do in this situation:

    YouTube - Three armed suspects rob Md. 7-Eleven
    Roll over and keep snoring. At 23:20 hrs, I am not in a 7-11.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    BTW what do you carry?
    Bersa Thunder Pro .40 Ultra Compact
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

  7. #37
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    I've been told male's will rarely be attacked by a single assailant. Odd's are it will be three. If that is what it looks like, I may need some more training That hit was too fast for me, I would have stayed on the ground unless they started shooting. If it did escalate to that level, I'm not sure I would have walked out of the place. I think they spread out off camera to cover all angles. I may be been able to hit one, but......

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by deafdave3 View Post
    Bersa Thunder Pro .40 Ultra Compact
    While the .380 might get it done, I like your odds better with the .40.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deafdave3 View Post
    Bersa Thunder Pro .40 Ultra Compact
    I like your odds better as well....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  10. #40
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Well, as soon as these three barged in, they were (probably) yelling for everyone to hit the floor. I'm deaf; I never would have heard that. So, one of them probably would have shot me thinking I was refusing to obey orders.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    While the .380 might get it done, I like your odds better with the .40.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    I like your odds better as well....
    I agree, but I don't like its shot pattern at 10 yards. I'm seriously considering changing my EDC to a G19/23 or an M&P. If those three came in and I was in the back of the store, that's pretty close to 10 yards.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timezoneguy View Post
    Guantes, I get your point. What I did not make clear is that someone charging through the door of a convience store may simply need a bathroom really bad. Seeing them comming is a smart thing to watch for but it will take at least some time to recognize their intentions. A gun in hand eliminates lots of other options that would normally be considered. I, like you have long since moved past the "what am I willing to do and when am I willing to do it" conversation in my head. I'm just saying that I expect persons busting through the front door will likley have a drop on you simply because you have not recieved enough information in less than one second to make life and death decesions.
    No argument there, you would definitely be between a rock and a hard place.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  13. #43
    RKM
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    Honestly, I probably wouldn't have done anything different than the people on the ground, unless they tried to rob ME or started shooting. I don't care about a few hundred dollars belonging to the store. They can have it, it's not worth a possible firefight. Had they started shooting, it's on. Hopefully I'd win.

  14. #44
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKM View Post
    Honestly, I probably wouldn't have done anything different than the people on the ground, unless they tried to rob ME or started shooting. I don't care about a few hundred dollars belonging to the store. They can have it, it's not worth a possible firefight. Had they started shooting, it's on. Hopefully I'd win.
    So what would you have done if on the way out one of the robbers told the folks on the floor to give up their wallets while a second robber continued his cover duties of the group on the floor?

  15. #45
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    So what would you have done if on the way out one of the robbers told the folks on the floor to give up their wallets while a second robber continued his cover duties of the group on the floor?
    I am not RKM, but to me others have covered this very well. The 3 BGs took control in 3 sec of there coming through the door. As bad as I hate to get on the floor I feel I would have most likely did what the GGs in the video did. If asked for my wallet I would have most likely giving it up.

    If at some point I felt the need to go to arms it would be BAD. I'm on the floor very hard and slow to move, so you are a stationary target for some time. While I may shoot one BG I will most likely take a hit or hits some where in the process of shooting 2 & 3. From the very start I am thinking of fighting through taking hits and getting and staying on my feet for as long as possible while making good solid hits on BGs. Your mindset will play into this fight as much as your gunhandling skills.

    I would be saying a pray to God at the same time I was fighting! For it would be mostly in his hands.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

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