Woman being beaten in restaurant...what would you do? (Merged)

[Guantes]

You would be amazed at what a palm slap to the side of the face or a thunderclap will do and no closed fists for anyone to see or complain about.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[atctimmy]

You would be amazed at what a palm slap to the side of the face or a thunderclap will do and no closed fists for anyone to see or complain about.

I was just thinking this. A BIG open hand slap, hard enough to put one of these girls on the floor would have ended this. Two at the most.

[ExSoldier]

Watch, my students will be dancing and doin' "High Five" all over the place, when next I see them. Then they'll pause and look at me and remember that not everybody is sheep... I'm going to start carrying my stun device again. It's not a TASER as the police use, this little beauty is the one you have to touch to the skin and hold ('bout the size of a pack of cigarettes), but it has this incredibly L-O-U-D "Fryin' Bacon" sound that is virtually guaranteed to cut thru any alcoholic or drug induced stupor. Nearly everybody has seen that video from a few years ago of the protester screaming at the police from the top of his lungs: DON'T TASE ME, BRO! DON'T TASE ME! ARRRRGGGGHHH! I've used the stun gun under actual conditions before. I know they work extremely well, if you can maintain the contact for more than two seconds. To me they're far more effective than OC and they present that audible deterrent that won't be possible with OC. I'd have applied the stun device to these women without hesitation. If any of the men had attempted to interfere, I'd have treated them in far more serious fashion. I might have drawn on them, considering that they would automatically become accomplices in the original assault and multiple MALE assailants raises the possibility of imminent severe bodily harm or death which makes deadly force more of a viable option.

[ExSoldier]

THis might be a good time to bring up this subject.
Pressure points strikes - discover Karate deadly fighting techniques

Turning the lights out on an aggressive person is not that hard if you know where to strike.

A good hard pinch to the nerve at base of the neck would have a lot more effective than drawing out your handgun.

Try it on yourself and see if it doesn't get your attention.
Pinch both nerves hard on both sides of the neck at the same time and it's "Lights Out Time".
No Hard punches to throw and it looks non violent from a distance.

Course a kick to the knee cap will take the fight out of a lot of people.

Just an alternate to popping off rounds in a crowded room.

I dunno, I've been studying Aikido for quite awhile and while I have had the occasion to use it a few times at work (I teach in an inner city high school) it's mostly arm bars and wrist locks. We learn nerve work, but when somebody's got a good "MAD" on, I don't think a nerve strike from me is going to phase them. Now, my sensei is something else! If I had to go that far, I too, would go for taking out a kneecap first, then escalate from there. Knee is also a lot easier target to strike. With that nerve point you've gotta be dead on the first time.

[shockwave]

Well. If we're going to talk about tactics here, in the event you're in a situation like this one, here are some thoughts on the video. The two assailants aren't paying attention to anyone but the victim. Easy enough to approach from behind and grab one under the arms and toss backward. They're a couple of teenage girls - neither one weighs much. The other one would probably run on seeing intervention.

Both of them are seen running about the restaurant, so in that case you could just trip one, or raise an arm for a clothesline. Their being girls and fairly wiry, some kind of joint lock might be a bit tricky, but you could go for that, too, you want.

The main point being that putting an end to this mayhem wouldn't take high level skills. It would take what Jeff Cooper talks about in the principles of combat: speed, cool, decisiveness, and resolution. Walk up, grab one from behind by the ankles and yank back and up. It ain't rocket science. The important thing is to render quick assistance before this turns into a show with the riff raff taking video and yelling, "Ohhh!" etc.

[oneshot]

The person recording it , was a McDonald's employee.

.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^I did not see where it read in either article that it was a Micky dees employee filming.
I know it was one who was seen originally trying to pull the animals off the victim.






Have you ever noticed how nothing is impossible for those who don't have to do it?

[BenGoodLuck]

Does anyone stop to think that you are watching a partial video with no facts to substantiate what you think you are seeing? Without all the facts how can you justify getting involved more than calling 911 and being a good witness? In all the posts I've read, no one refers to this article: Update: McDonald’s Responds to Horrific Beating Vid as Police Charge 14-Year-Old Girl in Possible ‘Hate Crime’ | The Blaze and the following interesting report:

"However, the website The Smoking Gun has uncovered a very odd claim. According to the site, the person who filmed the video was in fact a McDonald’s employee named Charm Hackett. But, he says, the victim was not a woman".

He claims that the victim was using the women's bathroom and was told to leave. So my point is not that the attackers are innocent. Just that we don't have nearly enough facts to make any informed decisions.

[Guantes]

I can justify it by the fact that someone is getting attacked to the point of serious bodily injury or beyond, apparently without the ability to defend themselves. I have enough. If you need more, do as you see fit.

[Lanner]

I think this one's easy. I usually don't have OC on me, I do carry a collapsible baton, but I don't think you need it. Those girls were not paying any attention to anyone else. Just walk straight up and bam right hook to the temple of 1 girl while she is looking the wrong way. I would 100% not present my weapon as that would be a severe escalation of force.
I highly doubt the other two girls are going to do anything given they have one friend totally knocked out already.
This actually happened to me in college, I was in the Kitchen at a party and three girls started just beating on another girl. Didn't get this bad though since I just picked up a pan and hit one of the girls in the head with it. Not hard enough to really do much other than make her REALLY pay attention.
I didn't even carry at the time but you don't need OC or a baton or even your EDC. It's a Mcdonalds. Grab a chair, pick it up, hit one of the girls with it. Fights over.
That was a bad video, I would have done something. I don't care if its a transgendered whatever, it's a human being getting absolutely railed on.

[fastk9dad]

He claims that the victim was using the women's bathroom and was told to leave. So my point is not that the attackers are innocent. Just that we don't have nearly enough facts to make any informed decisions.

So someone not leaving a bathroom makes it ok for them to get beat on? Those girls had ZERO right/justification to do what they did. They are not the bathroom bouncers. Someone not leaving someplace, talk to management or call the police, you DO NOT take matters into your own hands.

[Nine O Four]

If they took your dare and moved then what? They have displayed no weapon and the fight up till that point was just some catfight with kicking and punching. You just now brought deadly physical force into the fight of which you are not a part of and it's questionable if the girls were at the level of serious physical injury or deadly physical force in the early stages of the fight when you would likely intervene. The McDonalds employee isn't being attached and seems to push the girls off easy enough.

This is what I'll do to prevent the situation into escalating into what it did escalate to (girl having seizure). I don't think the BGs would continue their assault after seeing a gun. Will I shoot? No. Not unless I see them draw a weapon and my life is threatened. Or if I reasonably believe someone's life is threatened. If I draw and the BGs run, cool, I'll give the LEOs their description. If they stay, I would've got a few more BGs off the street even if it's temporarily. All I'm saying is, that there wouldn't've been a beat-down, and the victim wouldn't've had a seizure.

[Nine O Four]

For those who advocate the display of a firearm and holding suspects at gunpoint remember that the first LEO through the door is going to see a civilian with a firearm pointed at other civilians. Do what you think is right but remember what your actions can result in.

That is why you call 911 and tell them the situation and SAY that you're holding the BGs at gunpoint.

[MitchellCT]

I'll take the unpopular position:

I do not get into other people's fights.

I would call the police.
I would let them know "Hey, the pigs are on the way!"; but...Absent extreme circumstances, I do not get involved in other people's fights.

Maybe I'm cold & heartless...well. So be it.

But it would have to be a very extreme situation for me to get involved in a fight between people I didn't know.

Is this one of those situations? Duno. Haven't watched the video, and really don't care to.

Even granting that this is a bad beating - Do you know who is involved and what it's about when you are seeing it in person?

You are judged by what you knew at the time, and in defending a third party, you stand in the place of the person being defended when you act - are you prepared to risk your money, freedom or life for a person who may have provoked the fight?

If you are all ready to jump into other people's piles of poo - more power to you.

But I don't get into other people's fights as a general rule.

[fastk9dad]

This is what I'll do to prevent the situation into escalating into what it did escalate to (girl having seizure). I don't think the BGs would continue their assault after seeing a gun. Will I shoot? No. Not unless I see them draw a weapon and my life is threatened. Or if I reasonably believe someone's life is threatened. If I draw and the BGs run, cool, I'll give the LEOs their description. If they stay, I would've got a few more BGs off the street even if it's temporarily. All I'm saying is, that there wouldn't've been a beat-down, and the victim wouldn't've had a seizure.

What if they move and charge you? Now you have a weapon out and could be in danger of losing it. You are again going to have a hard time articulating you felt your life was threatened by 2 girls when no weapons were displayed (except yours). Sure the display of a weapon could stop an attack, but don't display it just as intimidation if you aren't prepared to use it. IMHO the introduction of a weapon in this situation is unnecessarily escalating it.

[Guantes]

MitchellCT,

For my own edification, I would be interested in an example of a situation, involving a stranger, that you would intervene in.