Woman being beaten in restaurant...what would you do? (Merged)

This is a discussion on Woman being beaten in restaurant...what would you do? (Merged) within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yeah! I hope she/he scores a couple of million outa this one. I also hope that the two yada yadas get a beat down of ...

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  1. #121
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Yeah! I hope she/he scores a couple of million outa this one.

    I also hope that the two yada yadas get a beat down of there own while incarcerated. The worthless piece of trash videoing the assault should be charged, with what I have no idea, but repeating "Yo" more than once is at least worth a rap upside the head with a baton IMO.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

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  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    Yeah! I hope she/he scores a couple of million outa this one....
    I wish that were true GBK, but if the judgement is against the chick doing the beat-down and not the restaurant, then there's likely no money to go after. The judgement could be a bajillion dollars, but what is it secured by? A lien against the vast holdings of the defendant?

    I've learned the hard way not to even prosecute some folks. It only costs me money for the judgement and I get nothing in return. If I only had a nickel for every dollar owed to me...

    In this case, the defendant gets jail time though, and that's a huge step in the right direction.
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  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    I wish that were true GBK, but if the judgement is against the chick doing the beat-down and not the restaurant, then there's likely no money to go after. The judgement could be a bajillion dollars, but what is it secured by? A lien against the vast holdings of the defendant?

    I've learned the hard way not to even prosecute some folks. It only costs me money for the judgement and I get nothing in return.

    In this case, the defendant gets jail time though, and that's a huge step in the right direction.

    The victim isn't even bothering to sue the assailants. She's suing McDonald's in a civil suit for not doing anything to stop the fight and for one of their employee's video taping it and egging them on.

    Could get a big settlement out of them for sure.
    -Bark'n
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  5. #124
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Yeah, you're right, but I can't help but wish the victim luck with trying.. I do wish that the idiot with the video would have slipped and cracked a bone or two..
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  6. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    The victim isn't even bothering to sue the assailants. She's suing McDonald's in a civil suit for not doing anything to stop the fight and for one of their employee's video taping it and egging them on.
    Hmmm... Now we're talking about some money... Forgive my ignorance on this case. I remember it when it first came out, but couldn't even bring myself to watch the video again when this thread popped back up. It was pretty upsetting the first time that I saw it.
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  7. #126
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    Woman being beaten, what would I do?

    Same thing I always do... Separate the individuals and then mind my own business. So far I've been lucky enough that it's all I've ever needed to do, I guess being 6'2 and 225 pounds and a little intimidating helps, sometimes.

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    The victim isn't even bothering to sue the assailants. She's suing McDonald's in a civil suit for not doing anything to stop the fight and for one of their employee's video taping it and egging them on.

    Could get a big settlement out of them for sure.
    Suing the company because their employees did not intervene would be an interesting case to listen in on. What with employees being fired in many cases for doing just that during robberies. Would love to hear the arguments to see their logic.

    On the second point I can see Ronald the clown having to cough up some cash because their employee actually seemed top support the attack and egged it on.

    Michael

  9. #128
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    I manage franchise owners.

    If something happens while their people are working under their flag, it is their responsibility. Their person steals, they are held responsible. Their person burns down the building they are working in, they are held responsible. Ultimately, the franchise owner of this McDonalds will be the one to pay the price for trusting the wrong people to run the store they own. It is the people they put in management positions that did the hiring of the dirt-bag that taped the incident. It will be the franchise owner that will end up paying the ultimate price, not McDonalds corporate. Franchises are set up to shield the parent company.

    It is the manager on duty that failed miserably to stop the fight or take the appropriate action of having the attackers removed from the store & calling police. He was ineffectual in controlling his environment. He did have the ability to close & lock the door to keep the attackers outside once they were through the doorway THE FIRST TIME. He needed to initiate the removal of the offenders from his location and make sure they stayed removed. He failed to do so.

    I am really glad the thugs are seeing some serious jail time under a hate crime law (this is one of the few instances where I really feel a hate crime legislation is being used well).
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
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  10. #129
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    If not enough time to call the police and her life/well-being is in danger, I'd intervene without drawing my gun and say that someone just called the cops and convince the assailant to leave. Hopefully, he/she will leave and the victim will no longer suffer. But if it does not stop and/or the assailant now goes after me, then more forceful measures need to be taken (command voice and gun).

  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Storm View Post
    If not enough time to call the police and her life/well-being is in danger, I'd intervene without drawing my gun and say that someone just called the cops and convince the assailant to leave. Hopefully, he/she will leave and the victim will no longer suffer. But if it does not stop and/or the assailant now goes after me, then more forceful measures need to be taken (command voice and gun).
    You can't DO that. First off, never bluff with a firearm. Not even a little bit. If the situation is dire enough to draw it's dire enough to fire. Shoot or don't draw. If you draw, you've ratcheted up the level of confrontation that you're backed into a corner you might not be able to get out of, not in any way, including legally. Explore every option and think outside the box. That ability to think outside the box can be the difference between life and death. Between freedom and jail. And you not only get one chance, you may only have milliseconds to decide. So figure it out first. Because a jury will take months picking it all apart.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  12. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    If you draw, you've ratcheted up the level of confrontation that you're backed into a corner you might not be able to get out of, not in any way, including legally.
    Showing deadly force in order to stop a confrontation is surely infinitely preferable to using deadly force to stop it. How did the law get to this disgustingly backwards state?

  13. #132
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    I find it interesting that the store owner/corporation can be held responsible for not intervening, but the courts rule that states/city/LEO have no duty to protect you. Not siding with McD on this, but if they lose in court, I'd push it up the legal chain using that argument.
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  14. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    I find it interesting that the store owner/corporation can be held responsible for not intervening, but the courts rule that states/city/LEO have no duty to protect you. Not siding with McD on this, but if they lose in court, I'd push it up the legal chain using that argument.
    I'll just throw this out there stating that for the record, I am not a lawyer, nor have I been to law school. Even though failing to intervene by the employee's of McDonald's may not be considered a criminal act, it does not mean that they can't be held liable for their actions. Not because they didn't try to stop the fight, but because they encouraged the fight, cheered, video taped it and generally looked at the event as a sporting event and entertainment for the employees.

    The lawsuit being filed against McDonald's by the victim is a civil suit asking for monetary damages because of their egregious actions of indifference and what appears to be support of the promotion of hate crimes. Again, not only did employee's not call police, but employee's of the store video taped the assault for entertainment purposes and egged on the attack showing a repugnant and egregious display of callous and reckless regard for the safety of their customers.

    The victim certainly believes, and is hoping that others, including a jury will also see that as grounds for awarding an amount of money for damages suffered by the victim. He has the right to sue on those grounds, and more than likely will receive a rather large award or settlement for it.

    It really has nothing to do with how you tried to word your post, implying that a store owner/corporation somehow has a duty to intervene when courts routinely rule that law enforcement does not. That is simply not the case. The police are not mandated to provide individual services of protection for individual. They are not personal body guards and can not be held accountable if they are elsewhere, or otherwise engaged in other activities when a crime occurs.
    -Bark'n
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  15. #134
    Member Array xXMens ReaXx's Avatar
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    There is no way I am letting this incident get as far as it did. The fact that everyone did nothing is why it got so bad.

    I am not Superman, but I am a human being. 2 females are attacking another female. I think I can do something here. If another person jumps in then I will react accordingly.

    I am using non-deadly force to try and break up the fight in any legal ways I can. I'm sorry, but if this was my fiance/brother/mother etc. I would pray that someone would help her before she was beat to death.

    Sitting and watching is appauling, and if I was the DA, I would charge the camera man with accomplice liability for advising the attackers to leave before the police came.

    Take McDonald's to the cleaners IMO.
    They don't call him lucky Ned Pepper for nothing

  16. #135
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    You can't DO that. First off, never bluff with a firearm. Not even a little bit. If the situation is dire enough to draw it's dire enough to fire. Shoot or don't draw. If you draw, you've ratcheted up the level of confrontation that you're backed into a corner you might not be able to get out of, not in any way, including legally. Explore every option and think outside the box. That ability to think outside the box can be the difference between life and death. Between freedom and jail. And you not only get one chance, you may only have milliseconds to decide. So figure it out first. Because a jury will take months picking it all apart.
    I never said about bluffing while drawing my gun. Nor have I said that I will just use my gun as the only option. I don't know here you get that idea. I draw my gun, I am prepared to use it and aware of the consequences.

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