Right move or dumb move? Video attached

This is a discussion on Right move or dumb move? Video attached within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; 1. His shots all hit the bad guy. 2. Bad guy's shots didn't hit anyone. Lucky outcome. * Woman with child needs to get out ...

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Thread: Right move or dumb move? Video attached

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    1. His shots all hit the bad guy.
    2. Bad guy's shots didn't hit anyone.

    Lucky outcome.
    * Woman with child needs to get out of the line of fire, not stand there with her child ... duh. Let the BG point the gun at the clerks and get your child out of line with the BG.
    * Good guy; not only was the child in line of fire of the BG, but if he missed, he had a glass door and whoever is on the outside of it as a background.
    * Pure luck that BG's shots didn't hit the woman, the child , or someone.

    Good guy may have thought he could put him down quick if he acted and stop him from shooting. You know, the movie version.

    He actually may have had a better shot from his chair... wall as a back stop, but... the woman wouldn't get out of the way and just stood there.... duh.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    Someone made the remark "don't do anything unless the situation turns dire" Seems to me that when someone is pointing a gun and demanding money, the only thing that turns that situation "more dire" is for them to pull a trigger. Which can be done in a fraction of a second. If the bad guys first shot hits someone, it has now turned dire, but a life is lost because you were waiting for a more dire circumstance before you acted. I think the clerk did GREAT. I can only hope and pray that if I ever faced that situation that I could do as well.
    See I'm with you completely. Forget about trying to decide if the BG might or might not actually use the gun. In the heat of the moment you'll probably miss the little nuances that would normally tip you off as to exactly what their true demeanor is. No, for me the situation escalated to deadly force as soon as a gun, knife or other deadly weapon was introduced.

    I think the clerk did a great job, given the circumstances.

    Eagle, I think the angle of the video is deceptive and that child wasn't as close to the line of fire as you think.
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  4. #18
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    3 shots of .40 165G gold dots and the shooter lived, but it did stop the threat..... even though the threat was able to return fire while being shot

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post

    ETA: The clerk did an outstanding job (other than planting himself and waiting a little long to fire...JMHO). But everybody needs to be able to act within their skill sets and limitations, and the wizardry that one person can do may not be the wizardry that everybody can do. It's not uncommon in these robbery videos for shots fired to not hit. That means a bullet went flying somewhere. You are responsible for every single bullet you fire. There will be little in the way of forgiveness what your intentions may be. As I have seen eloquently stated, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." If you have game like this clerk did, then maybe it will work out for you. If you don't, maybe it won't work out well for you.
    +1 ... I like the way you phrased things..Thanks
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    I posted this in another thread to prove a point, but I want the group to weigh in on this video. I think it was reckless use of a concealed handgun.

    Let's armchair QB this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    I think the responses of those from the thread about the Waffle House robbery would be a good indication of where people stand on this issue. There are those who would open fire with no concern whatseover for the safety of others nearby. There are those who would not open fire unless the situation had turned so dire that it became the survival of organism response. And the spectrum in between is filled.

    I, for one, don't blame the overweight lady carrying a baby for not doing some mind reading, split second ninja roll with child and getting out of the way of the shooter and robber. I suppose the shooter also gave no thought to the sound of the gun going off multiple times just inches from a child's head.
    So he should have relied on the kindness of the armed thug to not harm anyone?
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    We can armchair this all day. However I have a question for all of you. Is this not the reason we carrying every day? The clerk did well, the BG is down all others are fine.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  8. #22
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    I think the clerk acted quickly and probably saved a worse situation. GG 1 BG 0
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  9. #23
    mel
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    Just wondering if this has played out in the justice system? I don't know if I can QB this one. What I will say and others said it earlier, the GG won and the BG lost. I would like to think that I will use the training that I have had, and good common sense, to react in a way that the outcome would be the same. Thank you to the OP, and any info on the follow up would be appreciated (who, what, where, when, and how?)

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    From the angle I viewed it, it appeared that he had sufficient clearance to fire, both on the initial shot and the following shots. .
    I dunno, it looks mighty close to me. And the bad guy shoots back at the guy which is why I question the scenario. Those bullets could have easily hit the child and the mother who didn't have a counter to hide behind.

    And as far as waiting for the kindness of a BG, I guess you guys are right. I suppose this was lose lose and it went win win. But it is funny to me, if the BG's shots had hit the baby in the head I bet a lot of you would think differently. When it goes "right" it is easy to say he did as he should. Also, what if the baby or mother did get killed, a prosecutor might try and charge the CC owner of murder or manslaughter. I am glad this worked out, but it gives us a reminder we are responsible for where our bullets end up, and the lives of those we endanger when we unholster our weapon.

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    I dunno, it looks mighty close to me. And the bad guy shoots back at the guy which is why I question the scenario. Those bullets could have easily hit the child and the mother who didn't have a counter to hide behind.

    And as far as waiting for the kindness of a BG, I guess you guys are right. I suppose this was lose lose and it went win win. But it is funny to me, if the BG's shots had hit the baby in the head I bet a lot of you would think differently. When it goes "right" it is easy to say he did as he should. Also, what if the baby or mother did get killed, a prosecutor might try and charge the CC owner of murder or manslaughter. I am glad this worked out, but it gives us a reminder we are responsible for where our bullets end up, and the lives of those we endanger when we unholster our weapon.
    I am not a Lawyer nor do I play one on TV but the question here to me is, where you in fear for your life? I would have to say YES! that every one of those in that lobby where in danger of being killed. The BGs shots hitting someone would have been a bad deal and everyone would be and feel sorry, but if the clerk had not acted they all could have been dead. I do not know the future nor do I know anyone who does, so I go with what I feel to be right at the time. Most times it works out good enough, maybe it could have been better but it could also have been worse.

    I also agree with those who have posted the angle we see and what the clerk had was different. And as to knowing your backstop. If we did not fire because we didn't know our backstop there would be few times that we could shoot our guns in a gunfight situation. Look at most any video of a LEO's car stop and there is a need to fire at the guy stopped. Who is in the house down range, who is in the car coming up or down the road? Is this a reason not to be as safe as we can? NO! but there a lots of rounds that go down range that hit something other than the intended target but most are non-life threating.

    For me this was a good shoot and the GG saved lives.
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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    I think it was reckless use of a concealed handgun.
    Don't agree with it being reckless. The clerk did what he felt was needed to be done. It's easy to say he should have done this, or he should of done that. We weren't there and there is no audio for the recording. We have no idea what was said, the attitude and demeanor of the robber. You play each situation with the cards you were dealt, in this case the clerk had the winning hand.
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  13. #27
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    Another simple reality based fact. A gun going off inside an enclosed area can be quite loud. A gun going off inches from a young child's ear probably left that child with ringing ears for a week. At least. And that's if the child doesn't still have ringing in it's ear.
    .
    Have you ever been in an enclosed area while a gun was going off? I have. .300 Weatherby magnum, about 3 shots before I could get the muffs on. My ears rang for a good 12 hours solid, with some spurts of ringing for a day or so afterwards. I was one lane away from that gun too, and I'm fairly confident that a .300 WBY Mag is louder than a .40, since I own one of each. A week is a bit of a stretch, maybe a couple days at the most.

    I do believe the clerk did good. Seems like a clear cut case of SD to me.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I have fired a .38 inside a house within about 18" of one ear and did not notice any hearing loss at the time. Circumstances and being an infant might have different results.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I have fired a .38 inside a house within about 18" of one ear and did not notice any hearing loss at the time. Circumstances and being an infant might have different results.
    Good point. In a high stress situation, people sometimes don't even hear the shot. Judging by the kid's reaction, that's a real possibility.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    For a split second, I thought it was a misfire, til he dropped to the floor.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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