Man picks up little boy and moves him somewhere else and makes him cry...

This is a discussion on Man picks up little boy and moves him somewhere else and makes him cry... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The following really happened; I volunteered to work at a charity/non-profit event. This particular event had booths that were both outside as well as indoors. ...

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  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Unhappy Man picks up little boy and moves him somewhere else and makes him cry...

    The following really happened;

    I volunteered to work at a charity/non-profit event. This particular event had booths that were both outside as well as indoors. Although there are two sets of exit doors, they both lead to the same parking lot.

    Typically I am not comfortable in large crowds. It is my opinion that people act ignorant in large crowds. You will see them doing things in a group that they would never dream of doing if they were on their own. Why people feel the need to riot in the streets over a ball game has always eluded me but that's besides the point. Today, I wasn't at a ballgame, if anything, this event could easily be thought of as a family event.

    This particular event did not have any factors that are typically known for causing trouble. The event had a low turn out - so we're not dealing with the mob mentality that happens as a single violent episode escalates into rioting. This event also lacked any sort of alcoholic sales that often play into the variables that are found in accounts of violence as it happens in public places.

    I first became aware of an unusual occurance when i saw a crying little boy (about 8 yrs old) coming in from outside. He made a B-line for his mom. I watched her go outside and then come back looking furious. I then watched her appear to explain something to her sisters. I then watched one of her sisters go outside and shortly return the same as her younger sister had previously done.

    I could tell that trouble was brewing and suspected that a fight was about to break out. The next thing I saw was two women argueing. Their faces were inches from each other and I clearly heard the "F" word used.

    Word quickly spread; a man in the parking lot picked the little boy up. The boy had been in a 4-wheeler wreck a couple of weeks ago and was still really sore from the wreck. When the boy's great uncle heard about this, he started to go outside and confront the man about the incident. His wife stops him.

    Later, I found out that the boy was supposedly at a booth and for whatever reason, the man asked him to leave. When he failed to comply, the man picked him up and physically moved him.

    I suspect that there's more to the story than what was told. I tried to de-escalate the whole affair by telling the mother that she can call the police and they would arrest the man with assault charges. Before I get blasted about my assessment pertaining to assault charges, I was trying to imply that there was no need to fight and that the appropriate thing to do is to call the police and let them handle the matter. The mother as well as the uncle disagreed with the idea of calling the police. It seems that they would rather engage in a heated confrontation as opposed to bringing the police into the matter and having them distribute some sort of "justice" (read, not revenge);

    All in all, the whole thing ended with both parties that was involved in the altercation leaving the event.

    Although nothing bad happened, it had the potential. Even if I had taken the set of doors that were not blocked by the argueing females as a means of avoiding trouble before it had a chance to explode, there is still a matter of entering a parking lot where there could've been an angry man with a gun that could've blindly opened fire, etc. The same is also true of the potential trouble that could have taken place by staying inside, etc. As opposed to being shot by a deranged man, I'm shot by a crazy woman.

    In hindsight, I regret not calling the police when I noticed trouble. They could've been there in a matter of minutes given that its a small town.

    I'd like to hear everyone's different take on all of this. It all happened so fast that if trouble had escalated into gunfire, I would've been in trouble. The thing that really made me nervous has to do with the matter of how emotional parents get concerning their children. I"m not judging them, I'm just saying that you can provoke the most meek mannered woman into action by disturbing her kids.

    With the emotions involved per this crying little boy, I think this had extreme potential into blowing up into something bad, etc.

    Thanks in advance for your input.

    If you have additional questions pertaining to the scenario, I'll try to answer in an expedient manner.

    DCG

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Not my problem until it becomes my problem.

    I was not present from the start, I do not know the players involved, I don't get involved in other peoples issues.

    If gunfire erupts, I'm on the ground or seeking cover. The shooter is unlikely going willy nilly shooting everyone and everything given the description of the events. I am a witness, nothing more until the shooter starts shooting willy nilly at everyone.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    argueing females
    That's some bad ju-ju right there. One of life's little lessons I've learned is that when you have an "arguing females" situation, don't get up in the middle of it.
    Spidey2011, Spade115 and ncsteveh like this.
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    Thank you Sticks. Nough said.

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    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Wouldn't a loud argument with the F-word involved in public at a charity event be reason to call the police?

    A crying little boy could be a victim, or he may just not want to mind his parent(s).
    All that can be done is observe and be ready to call authorities ,at a minimum.
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    Let the LEOs settle the matter.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    I make it a habit to stay out from between a mama bear and her cubs. Male dogs fight, female dogs fight to the death, and I won't try to separate either of them. Disturbed people can disturb the peace, but not so much when you're behind cover. Thank goodness they left. It's good that you're evaluating other possibilities of action or inaction. It's important to do "what if" thinking before stuff like this happens. Always be thinking of your personal safety before getting involved in any confrontation, no matter how minor. "If you don't know everything, you don't know anything." "We don't know what we don't know."
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
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    Sounds as though anyone leaving an 8 yr. old child unattended at an event like that, is the same kind of idiot who would want heads to roll, when someone is getting distracted by their kid, and doesn't know what else to do, but move the child out of their way.
    mother and her family sound like dummies from the word go.
    Glad it ended ok, and the kid wasn't really harmed.
    These are just the kind of events where predators stalk kids.
    Just like vacations. Just because you're there to have a good time, doesn't mean everyone is.
    Spidey2011, Vtxdpm and tkruf like this.
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  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Not my problem until it becomes my problem.

    I was not present from the start, I do not know the players involved, I don't get involved in other peoples issues.

    If gunfire erupts, I'm on the ground or seeking cover. The shooter is unlikely going willy nilly shooting everyone and everything given the description of the events. I am a witness, nothing more until the shooter starts shooting willy nilly at everyone.
    I agree that its not wise to be a busy body and involved with everyone's business. I really wasn't concerned about a wild shooter trying to kill everyone in the room and I never really considered this to be a highly likely situation.

    The part I'm worried about is that stray bullets will kill you the same as the ones that are aimed at you if they connect.

    My line of thinking on this is that even though I'm not involved and I don't have all of my facts, IF a shooting could take place and we probably don't have a wild shooter situation, I could very well be involved if I become a victim of a stray bullet. Just the fact that this is taking place in a somewhat close vicinity of me, it has potential to harm me and that's the part that makes it my concern.

    I'm not saying your wrong and trying to be confrontational, just that we sound like we have different ideas as to what constitutes a threat.

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    Sounds like the event was large enough for preventative security to be in place? Anyway, when women, a child, and the men start at it, a clear case of 911. I wasn't there but don't know why you felt the need to escape instead of being a good witness from a secure vantage point?
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    Sounds as though anyone leaving an 8 yr. old child unattended at an event like that, is the same kind of idiot who would want heads to roll, when someone is getting distracted by their kid, and doesn't know what else to do, but move the child out of their way.
    mother and her family sound like dummies from the word go.
    Glad it ended ok, and the kid wasn't really harmed.
    These are just the kind of events where predators stalk kids.
    Just like vacations. Just because you're there to have a good time, doesn't mean everyone is.
    My thoughts exactly. An 8 year old shouldn't be on a four wheeler, period, which is the first clue that these parents lack brain matter. Then they leave that kid unattended in a fairly crowded place, leaving no doubt. My guess is that the kid was bothering someone while they were working a booth, and when the guy asked the kid to leave, he wouldn't. Judging from the stupid actions of his parents, it's a safe bet that he doesn't always want to cooperate. While I would never even touch someone else's kid (It ain't like when you old timers grew up and your neighbors could smack you around for backtalking, even though it should be), I can see the reason the kid was moved. The kid acts like an annoying little brat so the guy asks where the kid's Mom is. Kid responds with "I dunno," so the guy moves him away from his booth. He had no way of knowing the kid was injured. How many 8 year olds are running around with neck injuries from riding a four wheeler?

    The way I see it, the person at fault is the Mother. Plain and simple, she did wrong, not the guy. I'd be more concerned with what she would do, not the other guy.
    Vtxdpm and atctimmy like this.

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    Member Array Vtxdpm's Avatar
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    The guy who moved the kid should have called an event 'official' or the police to report an 8 yr old child who seemed to be missing his parents. He would have acted responsibly in the eyes of the police for helping the wayward kid and the mom would have been revealed as the negligent person she is.

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    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vtxdpm View Post
    The guy who moved the kid should have called an event 'official' or the police to report an 8 yr old child who seemed to be missing his parents. He would have acted responsibly in the eyes of the police for helping the wayward kid and the mom would have been revealed as the negligent person she is.
    Probably true, but if the man's booth was garnering a fair amount of business, it's very possible that something like that never crossed his mind. If you've ever dealt with a snarky 8 year old, you can tell when they know exactly where their parents are, and when they legitimately don't know. I'm fairly sure he just moved the kid and told him to go find his Mom, so the kid gets upset that the mean old man wouldn't talk to him and decides to go tell Mommy that some guy hurt him. Typical crap brought on by bad parenting.

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    People argue. If you are afraid of gunfire erupting every time someone raises their voice then you should stay home more often. Sticks said it best:

    Not my problem until it becomes my problem.

    I was not present from the start, I do not know the players involved, I don't get involved in other peoples issues.
    If you think there is a real threat LEAVE! Talking with one of the angry parties is only going to put you at a higher risk. Trying to de-escalate a problem that isn't yours is a sure way to get caught in the middle of it. If you really thought there was a threat then you should have scooted out the other door and vanished.
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