Do you shoot the robber if he has a toy gun?? - Page 2

Do you shoot the robber if he has a toy gun??

This is a discussion on Do you shoot the robber if he has a toy gun?? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; He will none the less, be charged with armed robbery! Committing a robbery with a toy gun is still considered an armed robbery in most ...

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Thread: Do you shoot the robber if he has a toy gun??

  1. #16
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    Array Bark'n's Avatar
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    He will none the less, be charged with armed robbery! Committing a robbery with a toy gun is still considered an armed robbery in most cases.

    However like others have stated, if I know the weapon is a toy, of course I'm not going to shoot him. That is the wrong thing to do according to my moral compass.

    However, hosing him down with OC spray is an acceptable way to deal with a non lethal threat such as this. And I'd have no problem doing that. Might even get a chuckle out of it.
    usmc3169 likes this.
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  2. #17
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    I agree with jumpwing.

    First, the chances of recognizing a gun is fake are incredibly low, unless the gun is blatantly fake, or you're standing right on top of him. If I see a man waving a gun around yelling about robbing a place and/or hurting people, I'm assessing the situation, and if the situation is "favorable," immediately drawing down on him and yelling at him to, "DROP THE GUN AND GET ON THE GROUND, NOW!" Then I'd be telling someone to call 911, or, if the gun gets pointed in my direction or he starts shooting, firing at COM until the threat is neutralized. (This is a response to a man with a real gun, or a gun that looks authentic).

    Now, if I know the gun is fake beyond a reasonable doubt, I'm still responding in similar fashion, but I'm taking lethal force off the table. Even if the gun is fake, the BG is still committing a Class 2 felony in the state of Arizona, and he should be dealt with accordingly. So, I'm drawing down on him while once again yelling, "DROP THE GUN AND GET ON THE GROUND, NOW!"

    The whole idea of non-intervention is good and all, but I'm not going to stand (or hide) in the corner when unarmed civilians are being threatened, or believe they are being threatened with lethal force. The last thing I want to see happen is an old man or woman having a heart attack because they are scared half to death, or women and children sobbing and pleading for their lives when I know without a doubt that I can control the situation until the police arrive. No, they aren't my family, but I'd like to believe that if one of you were in a similar situation, and my family was in the vicinity, that there would be someone there to protect them. In the end, what do we have but each other? Sitting around watching someone get killed or literally scared to death isn't something I could live with...
    Erick46590 and TN_Mike like this.
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  3. #18
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    Stick your thumb up and your index finger out and then poke him in the eye and say, "You'll shoot your eye out, kid!"
    Erick46590 and RETSUPT99 like this.
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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Draw and tell him, "On three we both shoot."
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    Stick your thumb up and your index finger out and then poke him in the eye and say, "You'll shoot your eye out, kid!"
    Haha... I don't think I'd show... Maybe yell, "It's a toy gun!"... I dunno...

    But, if it was a home invasion... "Officer, I thought my life was in danger!!!"

  6. #21
    Member Array Nathanimal's Avatar
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    If I am 100% positive it is a toy gun, I would do nothing. Let the PD do what they are paid to do. I wouldn't laugh. Nothing good comes of antagonizing nut jobs robbing people with fake weapons.

    If I am not 100% positive it is a toy gun, I make the judgment call that I hope I never have to.

  7. #22
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    Let's put it this way. If there's a chance that it's real, I'm not going to bet my life on the hopes that it's not...

  8. #23
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    I've seen BB guns that look like a real 1911,I owned one,the giveaway is the little hole in the barrel.If I know for a fact it's fake I'm not shooting,I'm not gonna pistol whip him either,I might mar the finish on my gun.Hand in pocket you don't know,he may not have a gun and trying to play houdini,then again he may have a gun and don't want you to see it.The last scenario will depend on how I perceive the threat to be.
    It also depends on distance,up close I may see it's fake,at 5 yards it may look real
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpwing View Post
    The assumption that I'm certain it's a toy is a pretty big stretch. I'm fully aware that my eyes can be deceived and a sudden high-stress situation can skew one's perspective. I mean, how often do eyewitnesses suffer a brainfreeze on HUGE details?? However, for the sake of "what if"...

    He's making an aggressive attempt to commit a felony. He may be starting with a toy pistol but there's no telling what else is up his sleeve (or on his mind). Terrible things can happen way, WAY too fast to -not- take the overall threat seriously.

    For the sake of your scenario, I'll assume the only tools I have to work with are my pistol and my bare hands (no non-lethal items like OC or stun guns). I would probably draw on him and hold him until the police arrived. He can throw up his hands and scream all he wants about how "it's just a toy" but I won't be listening; I'll be too busy yelling repeatedly for him to get on the ground.

    Please note: I won't get between him and the door. I won't pursue if he turns and runs.

    There's a certain element of civic responsibility here. This fruitcake has some issues. He may also have warrants. If he gets away today, and does something even worse tomorrow, I'd have trouble sleeping if I didn't at least make a reasonable, good faith effort when I had the chance. For me, a "reasonable" effort in *this* situation does not include cowboy heroics. But crossing my arms and standing there with a smirk on my face while the poor clerk wets his pants is an unsatisfactory response.
    +1 on that. If I knew it was real I would draw and fire. If I knew it was fake then I would draw and order to the ground. It's kinda unnerving reading some responses were one would not help out his fellow man/woman. Just letting the guy come in and make the threats an get away is unacceptable to me. If he wants to escalate the situation then so be it. What I have trumps his card any day of the week.
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  10. #25
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    Given some of the poorly manufactured real weapons I see at some gun/pawn shops, a perp could get one of them and a can of orange spray paint and come up with a real gun that would look fake. I have a pretty high hurdle to KNOW the gun is fake. If that hurdle is met, all but the blind will also know the gun is fake. I am not staking my life on a guess that could be wrong.
    HK Jake likes this.
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  11. #26
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    Since he's holding a obvious toy gun, he's no viable threat YET. I'd keep my mouth shut and my hand on my gun, just in case the situation changes.
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  12. #27
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    Thank you gruntingfrog. This thread takes too long with its somewhat silly "what if". REGARDLESS of the situation, if there is no imminent threat, there is no reason for any of us to have a firearm presented or used. I would really like to meet the kind of person who is willing to put his life on the line because he believes some perp has a toy gun---I do not think they exist and if they do, they are tempting fate big time.

  13. #28
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    Thanks to something I learned early on from Bark'n (WHEN TO USE DEADLY FORCE: Drill this into your head... When there is an immediate, and otherwise unavoidable threat of death, or crippling injury to yourself or another innocent person!), I would NOT draw my weapon if I KNEW the gun was a fake. Even though I'm within the law to do so to stop a forcible felony, I'm not going to shoot some moron so I can become a hero. I watch everything and become a good witness.
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  14. #29
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    Even if the gun is obviously a toy (and mega-dittos to everyone pointing out why that would not be nearly so obvious, especially under high stress), you don't know what else he has or is capable of. He may have another (real) pistol in his waistband, or a knife, or some other threat which you can not perceive. I think you have to treat someone whose committing armed robbery as "armed" regardless of what you might think you know. And when that adrenaline dumps you aren't going to "know" very much, frankly.

    So I'd simply treat him as though he is armed, whether I have doubts or not, and respond however I would respond to a real gunman, (which varies from "good witness" to "drill the guy" depending on a bunch of factors that we talk about here all the time.

  15. #30
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    If im by myself and its just me and him then I draw down on him and make him sit there or let him run out the store. If Im with my kids I back up draw my gun and walk my kids out of the store and get into my car. If that A hole see's me with my own gun he ain't comin anywhere near me and if he does then he just stupid.

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