Caught in the Crossfire (with diagram) - Page 2

Caught in the Crossfire (with diagram)

This is a discussion on Caught in the Crossfire (with diagram) within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Im with Mitchell on this one. Im moving with a purpose to get the hell out of the way....

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Thread: Caught in the Crossfire (with diagram)

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Im with Mitchell on this one. Im moving with a purpose to get the hell out of the way.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......


  2. #17
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    draw just in case, and move with a purpose
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    never in America have i seen a commercial entrance in that configuration.
    please post a picture or location if there is one...

    if i were there i would be very busy becoming one with the pavement
    cars only gonna pause for a moment and by the time i hit the ground it will either be all over or they (one, no more than 2) are gonna get out and have at him.
    as I'm going to ground i will have my left hand in my vest or coat pocket on my secondary gun-a 642. i will fall such that my gun is pointed in their direction. if they do get out of the car...i will engage with out drawing. point shooting is in my skill set tool box. and a hole in my pocket can be mended. i would not be doing anything i have not practiced.
    if they see you drawing, you may well become a target to


    though it could be a moment of opportunity action, never confuse 'bad' with stupid-- they know how to plan a drive by.

    i am also of the thought that my situtional awreness may have picked up on the approaching car. if they had approached quickly with a lot of motor and breaking noise.

    its an interesting scenario though

    after thought--i am not going to try moving away from the action cause movement draws the eye...and they are likely to be firing at what they are looking at. i do not want them to look at me.
    Last edited by claude clay; June 3rd, 2011 at 03:27 PM. Reason: clarity
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  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    B started the attack, so without any additional information, I am going to assume that party is more likely to start shooting random bystanders. Assuming I am armed, I am at the very least getting the draw hand into a grip on my pistol; my main effort is to escape to the sidewalk at 4:30ish (move along the slanted wall). I can't easily watch both A and B, so I am going to watch B; if he (or anybody still in the car) decides to turn attention my way, then draw and respond. Basically, if the showdown is between A & B, then when I get away to the side, I should be in a position to pull out the cell and call 9-1-1; if it turns into a free-for-all, I need to make distance and be prepared to return fire.
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  5. #20
    Senior Member Array CowboyColby's Avatar
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    Shortest distance is a straight line A to B. Be C and C your way out of the way quickly

  6. #21
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    Senior Member Array cj's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm missing something, but draw a line between A and B to see the general direction shots are going in, and I'm heading as perpendicular away from that as I can. In this case, it seems the sidewalk will be a decent destination off to the right of the diagram.

  7. #22
    Member Array Nathanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    also, the car would be likely coming from the other direction if they intend to get out cause of the direction car doors open.
    though it could be a moment of opportunity action, never confuse 'bad' with stupid-- they know how to plan a drive by.

    i am also of the thought that my situational awareness may have picked up on the approaching car--afterall it is coming on the wrong side of the driving area which would 'catch my eye'.

    its an interesting scenario though

    after thought--i am not going to try moving away from the action cause movement draws the eye...and they are likely to be firing at what they are looking at. i do not want them to look at me.
    besides, i can only move in the direction of their hood--the direction they will be driving off, and this prolongs the time i am in their sight.
    In the picture Lima posted the car seems to be moving from right to left.. If you hit the ground and scurried right(away from store entrance and shooter A) you would be moving toward the rear of the car. Unless this weird store entrance is in dead end, if the car moves it will probably go forward.(traveling right to left)
    Last edited by Nathanimal; June 3rd, 2011 at 03:29 PM. Reason: Clarifying directions of car movment

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    never in America have i seen a commercial entrance in that configuration.
    please post a picture or location if there is one...
    This is a representation of the entrance of our local grocery story which is set out exactly as diagrammed. I have seen many such commercial openings. Maybe it's a midwest thing.

    i am also of the thought that my situtional awreness may have picked up on the approaching car--afterall it is coming on the wrong side of the driving area which would 'catch my eye'.
    Where in Europe do you live? LOL. I certainly hope you drive on the right side of the road like the rest of us do here in the US in which case the direction of the car is correct. Therefore a car pulling into the parking lot of a grocery store and someone getting out is not likely to raise too much suspicion.

  9. #24
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    i admit to have gotten turned around wrong on the cars direction.

    and just cause i haven't seen that style of entrances does not make it not real.

    it is a choke point and should be approached with caution. like open strip malls that have the buildings joined like a 'L'.
    your may be trapped in the corner. that style is commen on the east coast. and the most commen stores in the corner are a Radio Shack and a bank.
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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I would be getting low and quickly getting out of the way. My first instict might be to head to the right along the wall, but then again if the car starts to drive off, you would likely be in the line of fire.

    Moving to the left if you can get there might be the better choice depending on how many rounds are flying and where the two shooters are heading. Whereever I went it would be away from the two. First and foremost, I am gone, whether or not I choose to engage, probably not, this really isn't my fight, would depend on what took place after I got out of the crappy situation I found myself in.

    BTW, if you and JD frequent this place you might need to practice tactical mounts/dismounts from the vehicles when you go here.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  11. #26
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    This would definately be a situation that I would duck and run away from the threat with my hand on grip just in case either party decided to fire in my escape direction.

    I think pulling your own weapon could confuse or excite one, or even both of the parties to assume you as a threat now and decide you need to eat one as well.

    Now, in a slightly modified scenario, let's say my family is with me (this being my preagnant wife and 6 year old), I may push them towards a safe direction and if the firing exchange continued and I see bullets are being erratically sprayed from either party, I feel a bit more threatened now, especially for my family.

    But all in all, escaping the area as fast as possible, if possible is first and foremost.

    Did you mention if the party driving by had a little 6 shot revolver or maybe an AK? Popping off a few shots or spraying in the general area towards party A with a full auto. Doesn't really matter I guess, if you take a hit, it could be bad.
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  12. #27
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    I would deploy my suitcase with it's SAAPI plates towards the one with the larger caliber weapon, and hope that the other plate duct taped to my back is sufficient for the one behind me, and would give me enough time to get my G-36 into action ...

    Actually, I would probably hit the deck before I even thought about it. Past experience has shown me that is the plan of action my body has around shooting I am not expecting. After that, I would be trying to get the heck out of their, while staying low, and not trying to draw attention to myself. There are too many unknowns to start shooting, but, I would take the odds that the shooters are going to be too pre-occupied shooting at each other, to worry about some guy running away.
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  13. #28
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    Assuming they are gang members, move directly between A and B and stand there. They will likely hit everything but what they were aiming for.

  14. #29
    Member Array Cattus Vir's Avatar
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    Without reading the other comments my immediate thought would be to try and become a flounder. Staying upright and engaging, in my humble opinion, only increase your chance of a hot lead injection. No, it's not the macho man ninja reflex moves I could sit behind my monitor and claim to do (would be a lie anyway) but survival is my number one goal.

  15. #30
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    Thanks for the thought provoking scenario Lima.

    I've been thinking about this one most of the day.
    Putting myself in this position, I rarely go to the grocery store alone so my wife and 5yo would most likely be just ahead of me or possibly already inside waiting just beyond the entrance. They are both faster than me due to my walking with a cane. I often drop them at the door while I go park the car and meet them inside.

    My first (and primary) concern is "me n mine". With that thought in mind:
    I would most likely turn and drop towards the angled wall to "B"s right while drawing with the intent to engage "B" as the initial aggressor. My reasoning is that "B"s incoming rounds are headed towards my wife and daughter as well as "A". Then assess the car/occupants for threat.
    Once "B" has been dealt with then "A" becomes my center of attention. My reaction depends on "A"s actions at this point.

    There are other actions a person might take, but the central fact for me is that I can't run which limits my options.
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