Grocery store/Work place

Grocery store/Work place

This is a discussion on Grocery store/Work place within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I work in a grocery store in a safer town. Since I am in Illinois, CC IS NOT ALLOWED! BG runs in, follows the solid ...

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    Member Array Mitchell's Avatar
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    Grocery store/Work place

    I work in a grocery store in a safer town. Since I am in Illinois, CC IS NOT ALLOWED!

    BG runs in, follows the solid brown line to the front of the help desk screaming for "DA MONEY!", weapon drawn (can't tell if it's real or fake) You have a can of mace in your pocket. BG is only worried about the woman at the help desk getting him his money. She goes to the register behind the wall in the help desk, then ducks for cover behind the wall. She is now completely hidden to the BG, BG follows the dashed line to register 4, he is now in close mace range. Bypasses you and demands (to the older woman cashier) to give him the money carelessly waiving what you now know is a REAL gun, threating to shoot soon if he doesn't get the money, he is still in close mace range, fires a warning shot in the air. Do you stand watch and comply quickly or Do you pull the mace while he wasn't looking, simultaneously blast him with mace and attempt to maintain control of his gun hand?

    Orange circle = you!
    pink circle = your pepper spray/mace effective distance
    red X = BG
    solid brown line = BG's most likely path
    dashed brown line = BG's possible secondary path
    Blue boxes = entrances/exits
    Red dots = Person WILL be standing there no matter what
    yellow box = many empty shopping carts could be there

    (Click to enlarge)
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  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    If it's double coupon day I head for cover.

    Going against an armed and agitated bad guy who I have no knowledge of his physical capabilities with a can of mace and hoping I can herd cats long enough to get him disarmed is way beyond a well thought out move.

    Sprays are rarely effective immediately.

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Since its in Illinois I would call Mayor Dalys office and tell him that his gun control laws are working, and thank him for the feelings of extreme peace.
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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Probably taking cover. The only time I'd act would be if he decided to come at me. If he got close enough, my left hand would direct his gun arm upward and he'd catch the blade of my pocket knife under the chin.
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    Member Array Mitchell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    Probably taking cover. The only time I'd act would be if he decided to come at me. If he got close enough, my left hand would direct his gun arm upward and he'd catch the blade of my pocket knife under the chin.
    I never even thought about this, we all carry box cutters...some carry small 3inch bladed knifes, I may just switch over to a small knife just for this reason. I'm not a real big guy but at 5'11" 170lbs I might take my chances at most BG's under 6'0" if I have the chance at the first strike.....ain't scared to break a couple knuckles, especially if I'm hopped up on adrenalin.
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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Multiple tools are important. I use my knife for something or another every day, I don't just carry it for defense, and in fact would be hesitant to use it in such a way as my first option. But given the situation you describe it seems to be the best option. OC vs. a gun is a bad idea. Maybe it "disables" him but he decides to start shooting the place up even though he can't see.

    A 4" blade under the jaw pinning his tongue to the roof of his mouth though, my bet is that he lets go of the gun. I would.
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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    This is an impossible situation, it is waaaaay out in left field, I could never be caught in this position. Because I would not live in a state where I could not carry. If the state won't allow me to defend my life, then I would not allow them to have my tax dollars. Even if they cut off my arms and legs and stuck a cork up my butt, I would crawl to the state line and roll across.
    p.s. Just don't make a mistake and head for the Wisconsin state line, from what I hear it's worse yet!
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    Member Array OperatorJ's Avatar
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    In case you aren't aware... IL currently has a bill (IL HB 148) for conceal (& open carry). I live in the great (and free) state of Texas, and have been carrying for years, but my entire family lives in IL... so I keep up with that sort of thing. I hope it passes... would definitely change my response in this situation.

    J

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    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Since its in Illinois I would call Mayor Dalys office and tell him that his gun control laws are working, and thank him for the feelings of extreme peace.
    I actually did lol

  11. #11
    Member Array Siddhartha's Avatar
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    Having worked grocery night crew in the past in Las Vegas where they sell alcohol 24 hours a day and after being robbed several times and each time I was unarmed (I was 17-19 years old back then). Once I was even escorted out of the store at gun point and once struggling with a robber with a gun. Thinking back on it and I have trust me I have thought back on it, any action I would have made with a firearm if I had would gotten me killed. Once I had an opportunity to disarm an armed robber, took it and would have been shot if it wasn't a cheap POS .32 automatic something that was rusted up. Not saying that we didn't crack a few heads of shoplifters before everyone got sue happy. If you are willing to put up the fight by spraying first with OC spray you better be fast and willing to take it to the end. Had a customer spray me with OC spray once and after a 3 on 1 battle ensued we made sure that we emptied the entire bottle into his eyes. Be prepared for someone to put up quite a fight after being sprayed. With that said its usually easier to give them the money and observe and report. Criminals are more dangerous and unpredictable than they were 20 years ago and if I was in your state I would think that my constitutional rights would have me carrying in deep concealment no matter what the law was.
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    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell View Post
    I never even thought about this, we all carry box cutters...some carry small 3inch bladed knifes, I may just switch over to a small knife just for this reason. I'm not a real big guy but at 5'11" 170lbs I might take my chances at most BG's under 6'0" if I have the chance at the first strike.....ain't scared to break a couple knuckles, especially if I'm hopped up on adrenalin.
    Dude, height and weight mean very little in real world scenarios. Of course, all things being equal, the bigger guy will win, but that is rarely the case. If you think you can land a decent first punch, let alone a knife, you will almost always win. This whole under 6'0'' thing is weak. Streetfighting is dirty business, and if one can escalate quickly with extreme violence, then he is in good shape.

    **As long as it's self defense**

    Hitting some guy when you feel threatened is more justifiable than shooting somebody. You don't have to necessarily think your life is in danger.

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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    This is an easy one. Since it is in Illinois, I wouldn't have to worry about it because I do not set foot in Illinois. I do not support businesses nor states that seek to restrict or deny my God given right of self defense.
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    Cut the poor guy some slack. He's just trying to raise a road stake so he can leave Illinois!

    But seriously, a can of mace versus a gun, no brainier, give the guy what he wants before he starts shooting.
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  15. #15
    Member Array Mitchell's Avatar
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    Well the whole reason I posted was because this happened at about 9pm one night about a decade ago...the guy didn't fire his weapon, and was pretty drunk. The story I heard was that the cashier caught him in the temple with a can of beans out cold. haha
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