True Story in News 6/5/11: Flash Mob in Chicago: 2 Severely Beaten & Robbed

This is a discussion on True Story in News 6/5/11: Flash Mob in Chicago: 2 Severely Beaten & Robbed within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What would you do here?...a Mob of 20 Youths. Mobs Attack 2 Men In Streeterville CBS Chicago CHICAGO (WBBM) – Police said at least ...

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Thread: True Story in News 6/5/11: Flash Mob in Chicago: 2 Severely Beaten & Robbed

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    Member Array 12smile's Avatar
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    True Story in News 6/5/11: Flash Mob in Chicago: 2 Severely Beaten & Robbed

    What would you do here?...a Mob of 20 Youths.

    Mobs Attack 2 Men In Streeterville CBS Chicago

    CHICAGO (WBBM) – Police said at least two people were attacked by criminal “flash mobs” in the Streeterville neighborhood on Saturday night.

    The first attack happened around 8:25 p.m. Saturday when a man was attacked after parking his motor scooter near the Northwestern University campus in Streeterville.

    The man had parked on the 300 block of East Chicago Avenue across the street from Wieboldt Hall when a group of 15 to 20 men, all approximately 16 to 20 years old and black, approached him, according to an alert from the university.

    One of them threw a baseball at the victim’s face and knocked him to the ground, the alert said. Several others from the group punched and hit him several times. The victim tried to protect himself and fought back.

    I'd most likely freeze and get beaten to a pulp and never recover from the injuries.

    Or...when the group got to a certain distance I'd yell "Stop or I'll shoot" Then break all the rules and fire three spaced (Center, Left & Right) warning shots at their feet. Well it's not exactly a "Warning Shot" if it's going to hit someone...so...it's a 'diffusely aimed shot' for at least 3 of the thugs and a 'warning shot' for the others.

    If they all turn and run you have neutralized the threat with three shots and 3 wounded perps. If any continue to advance you keep firing / reloading till you hear a 'click' I carry 24 rounds of .45

    On paper I'd have one round for each thug and some to spare.

    My hunch (and someone w/ police / FBI experience could have real stats on this)...My hunch is that once a group is fired upon in a credible manner...3 shots of .45...99% of the time the mob flees...They could have video and 'battlefield' reports to base that on.

    they're amateur thugs...they want to get home to the (foodstamp) chips and the (stolen) big screen and some Lovin' w/ (meal ticket) Baby Momma.

    I'd guess the exception to the "mob fleeing rule" would be in a riot / political situation where there is a 'group purpose' (looting or a building take-over) That group may be organized or motivated enough to take casualties and overwhelm you.

    So...I think your rule of thumb would be

    A) Fire 3 shots on the Advancing Mob.
    B) Wait..to judge effect (which you'd hope would be instant)
    C) If that Fails...Fire one shot per Thug as you seek cover / retreat until ammo is gone.

    I'm 60 yrs old and can't run...I'd have to stay put and Fire.

    To Summarize: 3 shots, and If they refuse my invitation to continue living, they get a 21 round 'salute'

    I am betting that the 3 shots will turn them around.

    The key to keeping a low body count would be my Awareness in
    recognizing the pending attack from the greatest distance...in the City
    I AM "always looking over my shoulder"

    I hope the 2 victims can continue with school without losing a semester.

    Could you imagine living in Chicago where you can't protect yourself ???

    Scene of the Crime on Google Street View:
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...173.05,,0,7.26

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    Given that this happened in Chicago, your having a gun on you will result in more severe charges for you than for the thugs. The only real action you can take in this case is to VOTE the politicians out of office and demand sane laws.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Given that this happened in Chicago, your having a gun on you will result in more severe charges for you than for the thugs. The only real action you can take in this case is to VOTE the politicians out of office and demand sane laws.
    OR...as in my case, never step foot into the state of IL. I have gone out of my way to drive around that state instead of spending ONE DIME there.
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    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    A mob of 15 or 20 men in their late teens early 20's and I am suppose to do something with my firearm? We have an Alter Ego rule in SC that basically allows me to act in self defense as if the attack on someone else is an attack on me and I am in imminent danger of death or great bodily injury. When we talk about a mob attack this is an impractical possibility. Call 911, be a good witness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    OR...as in my case, never step foot into the state of IL. I have gone out of my way to drive around that state instead of spending ONE DIME there.
    Or this ^^^^^^^
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

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    To the OP,

    You are 60yrs old and between 15 to 20 black thugs begin surrounding you after you (get out of your car, turn a corner....etc).

    You live in MN.

    Please help me understand the following of your tactical protocol: Why on earth do you avoid, at minimum, getting a firm grip on your sidearm as they approach and before they reach contact distance.

    There is a massive disparity of force. Just one is likely a disparity of force given your age.

    Moreover, if they continued to advance or were already approaching contact distance, help me understand your warning shot tactical strategy versus shooting to neutralize multiple threats? What is your thought process behind the feeling that says "hold back" right at that point? Despite an incredibly dangerous situation to you, you Really Intend to avoid shooting them.

    To me, warning shots are extremely dangerous for you.

    If you want to "give them a chance" and/or provide an opportunity for them to back down, do it with an early grab of your holstered sidearm.

    They continue to aggress by closing distance, go digging in their baggy pants, flank you, begin moving off your current standing spot and

    bang bang bang bang bang.

    This is an extremely dangerous scenario where you have ambush advantage.

    Use this situational gift fully.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
    - Frederic Bastiat

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    Mobs and gangs... :angry:

    O2 thieves

    +100 ret

    Sent from my phone
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    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

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    I like retsup don't step foot inside Illinois ever,In a mob scenario like described I will try to position a vehicle between me and them and start yelling stop don't come any closer your scaring me I'm afraid etc.,I'm sure they will become emboldened by the crippled old white guy ,until they meet Mr Colt and Mr Sig,at that point I yell don't come any closer or I will shoot,next dude takes a step forward gets shot COM,then I take the next threat,I'm gonna hope they break and run away at that point,Cowards usually don't hang around very long after stuff goes South,if somebody else pulls a gun they get double tapped,scanning and looking 360 for threats,while constantly moving gun at ready position.If I'm using my jeep for cover chances are the AR 15 with 6 mags are in it,I will try to get it ready to go asap,30 rounds of whoop ass will make the dumbest Gang banger run like the devils after him
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    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    The idea of a warning shot is wrong in this situation. Granted there is a good chance that the display of the gun may make the mob disperse since they were just playing a "Game" in their opinion. None of them want to get killed for that. If you fire a "warning" shot, it is still considered use of deadly force, no matter where you aimed or hit the BG. If your going to shoot, shoot to end the threat (COM). Why waste ammo that you may need if the mob continues to press the attack. Wouldn't it suck to be killed by one of the first BG's you shot in the leg, when he pulls his gun, enraged that you shot him. In the original scenario I am finding cover yelling once to draw attention from possible witnesses to call 911 and drawing my weapon. The first person to advance on me facing my weapon obviously has made up thier mind to do me grave bodily harm, or they would be turning tail, so they get one COM, then I transition to the next closes target. Continue until no one else is advancing or the gun and spare mag are empty.

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    If that happened to me here in OK, forget about warning shots. The only warning they get is me drawing. If they decide to keep coming I open up. I generally carry 21 rounds, including my spare mag. If there's 15-20 hoodlums I can't afford warning shots.
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    I would draw, this is their only warning. They keep coming I begin firing
    Same here but I would add in a verbal warning as well. The problem with something like this is that once you figure out you're in trouble they are already too close. I would draw, shout "stop get back" (or similar) and a second later the fight would be on. Hopefully clipping the first couple BGs would make the others run away.
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    Having been in a few of these situations, I would say determining the best course of action is the difficult part. Details, such as distance lighting, numbers will all effect the decision process.

    Given the circumstances to allow it, I prefer drawing and warning. If it is successful, it provides the least post incident hassle. The difficult part is the communications. Communicating in such a way that they believe that you will shoot/kill attackers until you are out of bullets, if they persist. If you can break their will in this manner they will falter and break.

    The second option, of just shooting, may be required under certain circumstances. After a few go down, I don't believe that the rest will maintain interest in the attack.

    If it is sudden, it may require time and physical interaction to get you weapon into play.

    The potential for significant GBI, from broken bones, to injured internal organs, to brain damage and paralysis, is great, in addition to death.

    I had three co-workers turn a mob in excess of five hundred, skipping buckshot.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Three warning shots are fine as long as they are all COM. Not bouncing off the ground where you have no idea of the backstop.

    Ammo is like chewing gum, if you didn't bring enough for everyone, then don't bring it out.

    This is a good case for OC on the off side with firearm on the strong. A buffet for the bad guys.
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    I'm really glad to see that all those tough Chicago gun laws are preventing crime (sarcasm off).
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    I remember the CSI TV show doing a episode on such a subject. Entitled "Fanny Smackin" ( CSI Files - Fannysmackin' ), where there were several attacks by college-aged youths coordinating their smack-downs of innocents & tourists via text message. The CSI lab tech named Greg Sanders ends up witnessing such an attack & when threatened, he ends up running down one of the perps, only to get his butt kicked for his trouble...but he ends up saving the original victim through his actions.

    Situational awareness would have to be heightened if one were to see a group milling about, & a decision as to whether or not you put yourself into it would need to be made. If you were to end up in the middle of it without warning, then drawing & issuing commands - & possibly using your firearm to defend yourself - would be the best option. A few well placed shots (at various points of center mass) may be your best hope.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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