Two Hostages: Would you put down your gun?

This is a discussion on Two Hostages: Would you put down your gun? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The thought of a warning shot would never enter my mind. If anything, I'm thinking CNS....

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Thread: Two Hostages: Would you put down your gun?

  1. #16
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    The thought of a warning shot would never enter my mind. If anything, I'm thinking CNS.
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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Adkjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Interesting scenario but how does a warning shot figure into the equation?
    Yea...I don't get it either. He stabbed someone and is threatening to do it again how and why is a warning shot even part of the thought process. what purpose would a warning shot serve? I'm not saying never ever but in this situation a warning shot is completely pointless....He knows you have a gun you either shoot him or put it down and hope for the best.
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CUTigers View Post
    This one is easy shoot the guy in the head you are with in easy range of being accurate to within a few inches shy on the wayward side of your loved one.

    Warning shot scenario

    3 punkass teenagers are harrassing a elderly woman and you offer assistance and tell the kids to beat it or you will call the cops. As the elderly lady is getting away and you are telling the kids that they should be ashamed of themselves, just like any other adult would do. Two of the kids pull out knives and the other kid pulls out some sort of pepper spray. You start to back away from the situation and realize your only exit is through them. Now I know a lot of people will say that situational awareness would not let you get cornered but sometimes its not as obvious. So do you drawn down on the teenagers and tell them that you are prepared to defend yourself. One of the kids says what you gonna do shoot a kid and tried to find out if your bluffing by trying to make you flinch, not one of the kids that you are aiming at of course.

    I would put a shot right beside the cockiest one or the one I thought was the ring leader, this would serve two purposes one someone is going to call the cops if they havent already with ,"I just heard a gunshot", Second only the dumbest kids would stick around after that and after the warning shot put the gun towads the next one that talks to you saying your first, I would have a decision to make between the ringleader and the pepper spray guy. He could possibly get to you easier vs throwing or lunging with a knife .
    Sorry "CUTigers" still no warning shot...the fact that they are "kids" has nothing to do with the scenario. A kid can kill you as quickly with a knife as an adult. My only decision here is who do I shoot first...the closest knife or the pepper spray...and I'm leaning toward the pepper spray because it can render me helpless and at mercy of the two knives. NEXT
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  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    if he can see me than i can see his eye than i do have a shot.
    second--when he stabs the other person i have multiple shots.

    but he was dead before he stabbed her anyways.
    to reiterate what Ive said--
    to carry a gun you must have the skills of a professional against the day when, heaven forbid--you have to make 'that' shot.

    if you are carrying a gun before you can effectively use it...buying a guitar ain't gonna mean the rolling stones are gonna ask you to play with them

    to be clear---buy the guitar and practice for years and perhaps you have the skills to be a professional. but along the way you will
    have become competent. what has any to think that the skills to operate a gun are any differently acquired?
    practice followed by more practice till you are competent ( 2 shoot from concealment in 6" in under 2 seconds) and than
    more practice to maintain competency and perhaps move up to 'truly skilled" ( 3 targets, each double taped COM from concealment in 1.5 seconds or faster)
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  6. #20
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    I won't say that I will never fire a warning shot; however in my opinion if I draw my weapon then it is a last resort with the intention to quickly stop a threat on my life or another's with lethal force. In my opinion at that point the time for warnings and negotiation has ended. If the act of drawing the weapon does not cease the individuals activity then I am not convinced that shooting a round in the dirt will do a lot to stop him either.

  7. #21
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    Ladies and gents please excuse me this is not a "Should I fire a warning shot question" I should have been more clear.

    The question is would you comply with the hostage takers demands and lower/get rid of your weapon?

    As far as holding two people as an example my SO has long hair he simply has her with a handful of hair and the other female with his arm around her neck with the knife to her throat either way he has two persons one you know and care about and the other a stranger.
    As I stated you have no shot.
    The question is do you put down/throw away your weapon not whether to fire a warning shot.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  8. #22
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    The entire scenario is invalid in a number of ways, in my opinion; please don't take that as a persona attack OP, I just think this isn't anything close to possible.

    But, playing along, the split second that BG is knifing the first victim, I'll be in motion to draw, close in very fast and open fire. If for some reason I didn't realize he was knifing and dropping her, I'd draw and fire as my wife buckled. She knows to execute the dead-weight routine once I've cleared my holster, and this entire incident may well see her dead either way. Giving herself a way to create a clear shot will be entirely up to her, and if she is thinking on her feet, she will likely sacrifice a hand or arm to the blade to guard her neck as she falls.

    I'm a confidant shot, and even if she doesn't attempt a falling maneuver, I will attempt a headshot. There is nothing at all to be gained by a warning shot here, in any sense. The most likely outcome is that he will kill my loved one summarily and break for it, in my opinion, if I fire a warning shot.

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    with all due regard to your clarification---i stand by my answer despite the flawed scenario

    and anyone i have trained would be able to do similarly.
    at the very least, they would have a clear awareness of their limitations.
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  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Ladies and gents please excuse me this is not a "Should I fire a warning shot question" I should have been more clear.

    The question is would you comply with the hostage takers demands and lower/get rid of your weapon?

    As far as holding two people as an example my SO has long hair he simply has her with a handful of hair and the other female with his arm around her neck with the knife to her throat either way he has two persons one you know and care about and the other a stranger.
    As I stated you have no shot.
    The question is do you put down/throw away your weapon not whether to fire a warning shot.
    NO, NEVER! NEVER! NEVER! You give up your gun you neither live nor win.
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  11. #25
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    I would never lower/drop my gun. That is hollywood and just creates a 3rd victim. You can be sure that he stabbed the one to make a point and will do the same with all unarmed people there.

    I love my wife and would readily die for her, but I will never stand by and watch her die without doing something even if it is wrong. If he harms her, I can guarantee you I will stop the threat!

    As to the warning shot, the movie Born Loosers had a warning shot that parted the BG's sunglasses right above the nose.
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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    The question is would you comply with the hostage takers demands and lower/get rid of your weapon?

    As far as holding two people as an example my SO has long hair he simply has her with a handful of hair and the other female with his arm around her neck with the knife to her throat either way he has two persons one you know and care about and the other a stranger.
    As I stated you have no shot.
    The question is do you put down/throw away your weapon not whether to fire a warning shot.
    I changed the title for you so that, perhaps, individuals new to the thread won't be so confused... if I were you I might also want to go back and edit your original post to be more clear that you are not talking about a warning shot or those who only read the first post and not follow up posts might be less confused.

    That being said... HECK NO!!!

    Like I said, I'm not even entirely convinced I would bring a gun into that scenario from the start.

    Using the "he has my child" scenario instead of "He has my husband (which, again, would be rather interesting)" I might actually be better served to just run up and take my kid from him rather than pull a gun.

    As stated, he is already trying to control one woman with a gun to her throat, he's not going to have an easy time of controlling her and a squirmy 2 y/o.

    If anything just stepping up and hammer hitting him in the nose would be the best response of all. He's got both hands full.. what's to stop me from doing just that...

    There's an old saying, if all you carry is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. In this situation you may not even want to bring a gun into it.

    No offense to the woman with the knife to her throat but my priority is getting my son back. She is secondary to that. If he doesn't have the knife to my kid and I see an opportunity to take another form of action I'm going to take it. If she gets cut... I'm very sorry and I'll try to do all I can to minimize the damage to her, but my priority is to my child.

    If no gun enters the scenario then there's not command to "put it down" and no worries as to whether or not you would have do just that.

    But... since I'm a fair player let's say I do draw my gun and he demands I put it down... nope.. not doing it. Again.. if he stabs his first victim he's show he's ready to use his knife and it might open up an opportunity to shoot him which I would take.

    If no such opportunity arose as stated before you can't really use a child as good cover.. too much is exposed. I would probably look for such a shot.

    Lastly, there is explaining the cold hard facts, "You cut him, you have no more cover. He's worth more to you alive than dead." Perhaps I can psych him into making a mistake or buying me time or position for that shot.

    But no, I'm not putting down my gun for him.. that is if I made the error in drawing it in the first place.

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array GunGeezer's Avatar
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    I would never, ever put down/drop my gun in the face of an armed attacker no matter who he held hostage. Unless you can tell me how my death would help the murder of a loved one. That's strictly a Hollywood scenario.

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array Hot Wing's Avatar
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    Wheel or mag is empty as soon as he stabbed her

  15. #29
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    Give the code word to go limp to my SO as she winks and drops I shoot the BG in the head,and keep shooting til the threat is over

    HE HAS JUST KILLED ONE PERSON,I AM NOT GOING TO GIVE HIM A GUN SO HE CAN KEEP KILLING,NOT ONLY ME BUT MY SO/LOVED ONES
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  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    the OP says--"he orders you to put the gun down"
    that rather implies that it is already in your hand.

    since action beats reaction--I'm gonna continue to stand by my original answer--I'm gonna shoot him in the eye. my wife or daughter do not have to go limp--they know i hit what i aim at.
    and when the time comes that i can't, i'll have to change my methodology to belly guns and proport myself accordingly
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