Two Hostages: Would you put down your gun?

This is a discussion on Two Hostages: Would you put down your gun? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sure... I put down my gun and then three hostages.... and a perpetrator with a second gun now....

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Thread: Two Hostages: Would you put down your gun?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Sure... I put down my gun and then three hostages.... and a perpetrator with a second gun now.

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  3. #32
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    Okay.. let's get this back on the topic of hand.. I'm going to clean up the last few posts that were off topic and get back to the scenario of.... would you put your gun down on command.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    If the guy has already slashed one woman's throat, the time for warnings is over.
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  5. #34
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    Hope I would...

    He has a knife. I have a gun. Assuming he kills one person and moves for my wife, he dies if I can get him. Always moving forward, searching for a shot, and assuming he gets my wife in the threatened posture, while moving forward, try to move his mindset. (He uses hostages to fend off perceived danger. Try to make him understand he is the hostage. "hurt her you die!") As I try this, if the shot presents, he dies. He hurts her he dies. To me, this guy is the hostage. He only lives if my wife is released and he ends the situation. As this scenario is set up, the only solution is "..to have victory, fight as though you seek death.."

  6. #35
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    We watch altogether too much TV drama, where scenarios like this are a staple of our evening's entertainment.

    When the BG orders the GG with the gun to "drop it, or I'll kill someone", this is, at the very least, a chance to ratchet up the tension in the plot to a higher degree. On a more subconscious (and insidious) level, I see the liberal media demonstrating the futility of using a weapon for defense of self or family, since the BG is only going to take it away and use it against us anyway. Resistance is futile, because we obviously know it's wrong to just shoot someone like this - after all, maybe you or someone else can talk him out of it, or offer him money, or in some other way defuse his anger and rage (undoubtedly caused by a traumatic childhood).

    But let us, for a second or two, suppose that this has happened. The BG is going to be amped up on adrenaline and whatever substances he's chosen to augment his skills for this performance. He is, more than likely, balanced on the edge of losing control - since obviously he's had to resort to taking hostages instead of grabbing the money and running out the door. A warning shot most likely is going to precipitate his fight-or-flight response, and in his newly-found panic state he might do both simultaneously - to no one's benefit.

    No, this is definitely a time for quick, decisive action. I would suggest a double tap as soon as possible, to quickly reduce the BG's threat potential (you have practiced double taps, haven't you?)

    Then, too, the Law of Unintended Consequences (tm) comes into play. Your .44 magnum warning shot, fired at the ceiling, may be deflected by a piece of pipe and find its way into an apartment on the third floor of a nearby building, shattering the window glass and embedding itself in the tenant's television set... said tenant being 87 years old, suffering from a bad heart and severe indigestion, thus causing said tenant to experience a severe myocardial infarction... well, after things quiet down you will have some serious explaining to do to someone!

    Check your local laws before you strap that Roscoe on your hip: most, if not all, states are going to refer to this as "justifiable homicide" or words very much like that. Many states also hold that firing a warning shot is not legal, for a variety of reasons, and this could likely complicate your upcoming court appearances. (Usual disclaimers here, I'm not a lawyer, don't play one on TV anymore, etc., yada yada yada.)

    Threat of deadly force has been clearly demonstrated to be real and present. Act decisively! No warning shots. Ever. Period.

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CUTigers View Post
    This one is easy shoot the guy in the head you are with in easy range of being accurate to within a few inches shy on the wayward side of your loved one.

    Warning shot scenario

    3 punkass teenagers are harrassing a elderly woman and you offer assistance and tell the kids to beat it or you will call the cops. As the elderly lady is getting away and you are telling the kids that they should be ashamed of themselves, just like any other adult would do. Two of the kids pull out knives and the other kid pulls out some sort of pepper spray. You start to back away from the situation and realize your only exit is through them. Now I know a lot of people will say that situational awareness would not let you get cornered but sometimes its not as obvious. So do you drawn down on the teenagers and tell them that you are prepared to defend yourself. One of the kids says what you gonna do shoot a kid and tried to find out if your bluffing by trying to make you flinch, not one of the kids that you are aiming at of course.

    I would put a shot right beside the cockiest one or the one I thought was the ring leader, this would serve two purposes one someone is going to call the cops if they havent already with ,"I just heard a gunshot", Second only the dumbest kids would stick around after that and after the warning shot put the gun towads the next one that talks to you saying your first, I would have a decision to make between the ringleader and the pepper spray guy. He could possibly get to you easier vs throwing or lunging with a knife .
    And what is behind the guy you're going to shoot by? The elderly lady? The shot goes into the first one that makes a definite move towards you. You have armed individuals and desparity of force.
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  8. #37
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    shoot the hostage, then its just you and the bad guy.
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  9. #38
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    I like you INccwchris.
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  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Ladies and gents please excuse me this is not a "Should I fire a warning shot question" I should have been more clear.

    The question is would you comply with the hostage takers demands and lower/get rid of your weapon?

    As far as holding two people as an example my SO has long hair he simply has her with a handful of hair and the other female with his arm around her neck with the knife to her throat either way he has two persons one you know and care about and the other a stranger.
    As I stated you have no shot.
    The question is do you put down/throw away your weapon not whether to fire a warning shot.
    I keep my gun.

    He attempts to bargain my wife for my gun.

    Reality: He bargains my wife for his life.

    I reorient him to this new paradigm.

    I am willing to let him go unharmed with my wife unharmed - TIK - Trade in Kind.

    Brain shot is a high threshold option.

    I let him know the specifics of the "stick" if he fails to take the carrot.

    If my wife fights him, I sprint and contact shoot him in the head/body. If I get stabbed, so be it.

    Call 911, attend to wifes medical needs as best I can.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
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  11. #40
    TVJ
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    Warning shot scenario

    3 punkass teenagers are harrassing a elderly woman and you offer assistance and tell the kids to beat it or you will call the cops. As the elderly lady is getting away and you are telling the kids that they should be ashamed of themselves, just like any other adult would do. Two of the kids pull out knives and the other kid pulls out some sort of pepper spray. You start to back away from the situation and realize your only exit is through them. Now I know a lot of people will say that situational awareness would not let you get cornered but sometimes its not as obvious. So do you drawn down on the teenagers and tell them that you are prepared to defend yourself. One of the kids says what you gonna do shoot a kid and tried to find out if your bluffing by trying to make you flinch, not one of the kids that you are aiming at of course.

    Move off X

    Bang bang bang - Kid 1

    Continue moving

    Bang bang bang - Kid 2

    Continue moving

    Bang bang bang - Kid 3

    Move if necessary

    call 911 for police and multiple ambulance

    Follow Suarez/Ayoob instructions when police arrive written on back of card in wallet.

    Call attorney's number in wallet. Engage service.


    If after shooting 1, the other two run, I stop. If after shooting 1 and 2 - 3 runs - I stop shooting.

    Texas law backs use of lethal force - I have reasonable fear of death from three thugs with two deadly weapons.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
    - Frederic Bastiat

  12. #41
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    Warning shot?.....the BG can listen for the sound of it thru the new hole the 230g hollow point put between his existing ears.

    On a more serious note, this is one reason I don't feel entirely comfortable carrying a small handgun like a pocket pistol or 'belly' gun. Don't get me wrong small guns are great & I have on occasion carried them....but when I do, I can't help but feel under gunned. I own a Ruger LCP & a couple of NAAs as well as snub nosed revolvers & they have uses.

    I can make much more accurate shots with a larger gun & in a situation like described by the OP....the accuracy of a longer barreled handgun would be a great advantage.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

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  13. #42
    sgb
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    I'm not putting down my firearm, I'm making it very clear that if harm comes to my loved one that I'm going to kill him. Then I'm taking the first shot I can get at either one of his knees and putting one or two in his head.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  14. #43
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    I'm not dropping my gun. As previously stated, there is no guarantee that he will keep his word.

    I wait until he gives me a shot. If he kills my loved one, he's dead. It's a lose-lose situation for him; a lose-win for me, depending on his decision.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

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  15. #44
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    I cannot think of a situation that would make me put down my firearm at the instructions of an armed suspect. The situation described suggests surrendering your gun to a crazy person already armed with a knife who has already indicated his intentions with his first victim.What would make you think that he would let you and your SO live after you already witnessed him murder someone? Why would you literally offer him both of your lives to dispose of so casually?

    You don't have to be a cowboy. Keep your weapon concealed if you have to and wait for an opportunity (I know that wasn't an option), but don't give up your piece until the popo gets there.
    Stubborn likes this.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    There is "always" a shot, the only question is whether you are good enough to make it or not.

    Don't play by the rules, don't do what they expect you to do.

    Been there, alot more than once.
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