June 14th, 2011 02:29 AM
I think it depends on what you mean: are you afraid for your children primarily from gun accidents - or are you primarily afraid to resist with arms if your children are with you and you should be attacked? These are two different situations.
Originally Posted by Mitraillette
(There are no ultimate answers to either though. It depends on your own level of comfort, your own life situation, relative risks etc.)
June 14th, 2011 03:13 AM
I cant advise about your carry method, but in terms of fighting back...is it a matter of 1) thinking that giving in will be safer or 2) a matter of not walking away/letting them walk away because they are in the wrong?
IMO, the second point is a no-brainer. You put your ego and moral stances aside and do what's smart. Escape, leave, give up the cash/car, whatever. If it's the first point, that's tougher but I believe you should fight. If you and your children are in danger & you cannot escape, you fight and you commit 100%. You dont depend on the 'mercy' of criminals.
Which brings me to the most important thing, IMO....for both of your issues...carry and defense...your most important defense will always be awareness. Prevention is always preferable. How about taking classes and even practicing...with your kids...methods of observation and awareness? Recognizing the bad guys? Role-playing what to do in specific situations? At kid-level for them of course...and expanding as they grow. And learning more options for honing your own instincts and some techniques besides your gun? (pepper spray is still a handy back up, for instance). This might give you more confidence and better sleep at nite.
A gun is not your only option. See my sig, from CCW9MM.
Fortune favors the bold.
Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.
The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)
June 14th, 2011 08:12 AM
"It's been easier to just not carry and make peace with handing over everything to the thugs so my kids and I can live."
Total submission and passive compliance is no longer any guarantee that you'll or your kids will make it through any encounter unharmed.
In my opinion you need to find a firearm that you can comfortably carry on your person that you can have available just as a possible personal protection option should you need it.
June 14th, 2011 08:20 AM
Here is one possible option though it's not a cheap one. Your revolver will be totally inert and inoperable without the ring which is worn on the middle finger.
Click The Link...Magna-Trigger
And there is no reason why you cannot carry a S&W J-Frame in a Milt Sparks PMK holster OWB under an untucked light cotton shirt. It's cool, comfortable, and you can wear it all day long.
June 14th, 2011 08:22 AM
I agree with th other posters. Try to find a method of carry on your person. Purse carry is not the best option and is has even more hazards as a Mom of toddlers. If you can not, consider carrying pepper spray until your kids are old enough to "gun proof".
June 14th, 2011 08:54 AM
Originally Posted by INccwchris
The bold is the best piece of advice in his post. Go to YouTube and search Limalife. She has a great series of posts about CCW for everybody and some specifically for women. She routinely carries a 1911 or a Glock 19. She has a toddler and is currently expecting another. I cuoldnt think of somebody better who is a regular here to get advice from. It alos looks like some of the other women have already chimed in here to help. Also check out Cornered Cat There is a fount of knowledge there also for women and CCW.
There are literally hundreds of ways to conceal on you body with modern contemporary clothing. My wife is 22 and wears very modern jeans and shorts and skirts etc. She carries a Glock 26 with ease. She is girlie and feminine and the only time she isnt carrying is when she is in scrubs at the hospital. Good lLuck
Friends don't let friends be MALL NINJAS.
I am just as nice as anyone lets me be and can be just as mean as anyone makes me. - Quoted from Terryger, New member to our forum.
June 14th, 2011 09:26 AM
A different angle
Robbery is not the only reason that a female is preyed upon.
Scenario: It's night time and you get a flat tire. You use your cell to call someone to help you change your tire. While you sit in your car waiting, a late-model pickup truck pulls up behind you. You look in the rearview mirror and the headlights blind you at first, then turn off. Both truck doors open and out steps two men. You roll down your window to tell the approaching men that you are ok and that help is on the way. They continue towards you. You insist that you are fine and they continue. Your quickly raise your window and your doors are already locked. Your children are secured in the back seat safe and secure.
The man on the passenger side tries to open the door. It's locked. He heads to back to the truck and reaches into the truck bed to retrieve a crowbar....
Not every criminal is a thief.
I hope you make the right decision for yourself and your family.
June 14th, 2011 09:26 AM
a thought here that has not been mentioned so far: There is an option for carrying in your purse safely w/ toddlers. It's not as good as "on-the-body-carry" but..........
Try using a small, but potent semi-auto (like the Kimber Ultra in .45 or the Springfield EMP in 9mm or .40 and carry with the chamber empty--your toddlers are NOT going to have the physical strength to rack the slide back to chamber a round. Granted, you will be at a disadvantage in an encounter with the BGs if you have to draw, but you can still rack the slide fairly quickly--and you'd still have your weapon available--better to carry unchambered than not carry at all..........
Scott, US Army 1974-2004
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan
June 14th, 2011 09:44 AM
There have been some great ideas put forth in the above posts. The only thing I can add is one more voice saying: "DO NOT STOP CARRYING!"
Live to ride, ride to live. Harley Road King
And keep a .45 handy
Kimber Custom TLE II
June 14th, 2011 11:15 AM
That would help with her toddlers, but I would also be concerned about other kids (older). It can be very difficult keeping up with two toddlers and keeping track of a purse or other bag. There are so many distractions with little ones. Theft of the bag or unauthorized access by another person are very likely. I was a stay at home dad for 4 years before I was licensed to carry. I had a diaper bag with a digital camara and camcorder stolen out from under my nose in a Chuckie Cheese. Being on this side of rasing toddlers, I would not carry off my person. Even now with my kids being well out of that stage, if a gun is not on me it is locked up. I trust my gun proffing of my kids, but I do not know all of their friends as well.
Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott
June 14th, 2011 11:33 AM
Carry on body is really the best option. If you are not willing to get a holster and carry that way then I support your decision of not carrying at all. I would like to add that there are nonlethal and other means to defend yourself. OC spray or a good knife are the first two that come to mind.
Remember that your mind is your best weapon. Staying alert and having good situational awareness is more important than carrying a gun. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Last edited by atctimmy; June 15th, 2011 at 09:00 AM.
It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.
June 14th, 2011 11:34 AM
Originally Posted by phreddy
I don't want to seem like I'm/we're beating up on you, Chaplain Scott, because I truly think that your heart is in the right place, and that under the scenario you've set forth, your intervention should work well.
The thing I'm afraid of - and trust me, I know how tight that some of these smaller pistols can be, in terms of the strength needed to rack that slide - is that in the mess that can happen inside the cabin as soon as the parental unit steps out , the child is *somehow* able to rack the slide: be it by a combined effort of pushing/pulling on the handbag or falling onto it while the slide is caught on a ledge of the console, etc.
It's an unlikely scenario, but still possible.
For me, there's no way around it: if you're going to keep the firearm inside the cabin while the kids are "freed" from their safety-seating confines, you must either lock the firearm away so that they cannot even get their hands on it and/or somehow make the weapon safe: be it physically clearing the firearm or making the trigger inaccessible.
This is the kind of tragedy that I'm most afraid of, being a parent that carries, myself, and being my State laws what they are (in terms of restrictions on the CHL/CCW):
Really, Really Bad : Toddler Shot & Killed Accidentally
That's why, for me, it's either on my person, or locked away. No parent deserves to lose a child. To have something like that happen by one's own hand is just devastating.
June 14th, 2011 12:25 PM
There is little to add to the excellent advice above. My kids grew up in a house full of guns, with never even a close call. When I carry, I carry on my person, and as soon as my kids got big enough to educate, they were educated. It's just a matter of keeping guns out of their reach until they get beyond toddler stage. Secure on-person carry by a parent is a lesser risk, by far, than counting on the benevolence of an armed robber. Today, there are MANY ways to carry a small pistol or revolver on one's body, in virtually any attire, for men and women.
June 14th, 2011 02:03 PM
First, let me welcome you to the forum! I hope we can help you find the kind of resources you need whether it's simply information or holsters, etc.
I have a 2 y/o toddler and a baby on the way and over the weekend I played "mommy" to a 7 y/o 4 y/o and my 2 y/o while being pregnant. I have to say, I COMPLETELY agree with phreddy when he said...
Suddenly one kid has the diaper bag, the other kid has to go to the bathroom, the third kid is pouring pink lemonade down his front while the first kid is asking if he can have ice cream. You put your purse down for two seconds to sop up the pink lemonade and then kid #2 is looking through it for the ice cream cone tokens SHE knows is in there but you completely forgot about. When you're finally sitting down and thinking semi-clearly you realize that kid #1 decided the diaper bag needed to be dumped out on the floor in order to find a diaper that no one needs and it starts all over again... sigh.. lol.
Originally Posted by phreddy
Guns and bags is not a mix around children. Far too many kids have had accidents when coming upon firearms in purses or diaper bags. I think if a bag is the preferred method it should either be on a woman who does not have to worry about children or in a fanny pack type of a bag that can be secured on body when all kid-dom is breaking loose and your brain is going in six directions.
I DO understand what you mean when you say it's easier to leave it at home than deal with it but I don't think you like that decision or have really come to peace with that decision or you wouldn't be here talking about it with us.
Yes, kids can be trained not to touch and all of that but to keep the temptation out of the way and to keep curiosity out of the way and to be in best control of your firearm to use it it needs to be on body in some fashion (as stated, even if it's just a fanny pack).
And, no, I'm not going to jump all over you for saying that giving over possessions may end a robbery as it very well might! That, indeed, may be the safest decision in that one, limited scenario. But, as posted above, that is not the only reason to commit crimes against women or women with children or children and having an option to fight back in those scenarios is helpful as well.
1. My first piece of advice would be to carry on body (as has already been beaten to death..lol). Even if it's just an ankle holster or a belly band or whatever, find something that works for you and don't worry about sacrificing size. Yes, I used to carry a 1911 religiously but I realized that I can control a 9mm better one handed and I have more ammo to work with. This means I can use one hand to control my children (to the best of my ability) while shooting with my other hand if I have to. So far I have been able to keep with a mid-size Glock but I'm willing to change that again if it becomes too much when baby #2 finally gets here.
2. My second piece of advice would be to make a game out of teaching your children to respond in a certain fashion to a certain command. We are still working on this with our 2 y/o. He likes to think that "stop" means he runs the other way..lol. We are trying to get him to realize that stop means stop means stop in your little tracks. And remember.. the safest place for your child MIGHT NOT be behind you. If someone is attacking you it could mean them getting caught up in the attack (quite literally). Someone might be able to snatch them up from behind you. If getting shot at it means they are in the line of bullets. Teaching them to stop exactly where they are and wait for further instructions may mean you are able to keep them a few feet to your side where you can cover and protect them and see them out of the corner of your eye but where they will be out of the way and if they need to regroup to you they can do that on a "come here." Of course that would greatly very on the circumstances and, as stated, with a toddler of my own I know that they don't always listen or understand. Thankfully, with guidance it should get easier as the older children can then be taught to rally the younger when the time comes.
3. My third piece of advice would be to think outside of the gun. Start thinking about hand-to-hand self defense classes and pepper spray and other things you might be able to implement in close proximity to your children without fear of seriously injuring them along with the attacker. Would you be more comfortable/willing to pepper spray someone with your kids near than pull a gun? If that's the case you might think about another option you might be more comfortable with and/or willing to use. Not everything is or can be solved with a gun (nor pepper spray, nor batons, nor tazers) and having another option might be a good middle ground for you to consider.
I'm going to take the road less traveled here and tell you that whether or not you decide to carry a gun right now is entirely up to you and I respect and understand your decision! My very best friend has recently confided in me that before she had children she felt confident in her ability to defend herself but since having two kids she does not feel she is in a place (training, equipment and preparedness wise) where she thinks it's a good decision to carry a gun. I am PROUD of her ability to assess herself so completely. Together we discussed what other options she might feel comfortable with and after SHE made some decisions as to what she would be comfortable with I surprised her by sending her the things she said she'd be comfortable carrying for self defense. She now carries a small knife around her neck on a dog-tag chain that she can access from either under her shirt or from around her neck and she also carries pepper spray that has a built in personal alarm when deployed. She says it's much easier to carry the neck knife than a gun and she feels more confident that she could get to it and use it when needed vs a gun. She also loves the pepper spray because she has no problem openly carrying it on the strap of the diaper bag or clipped to the stroller and she can just unclip it from whatever and clip it onto her waistband if needed. She feels like she has self defense options and isn't helpless. She still wants to get to the point where she feels comfortable carrying a gun again but in the mean time she feels much better about her options and that, I believe, is what really matters.
As I said, I'm very proud of her self assessment and over-joyed that I could help her find something to defend herself and her children that she felt comfortable using at this time.
If a gun is not for you at this particular moment in time then don't let someone brow beat you into thinking you aren't taking your personal safety or the safety of your kids seriously. If you can find an option of carrying a gun that works for you, FANTASTIC!! If not, don't give up! Consider your other options and find something you might be willing to use.
Of course, getting additional training may be in order and I'm on the hunt right now for a class that is tailored for mothers of children (preferably taught by people with children) who can give good tips and shooting techniques for those of us who have more than just our own skins to worry about. I won't be able to take such a class until this little one hatches but I firmly believe additional training can do nothing but help and if it's tailored to my needs, all the better!
Good luck! If we can help you further please let us know.
June 15th, 2011 03:03 PM
The Thing that got me to buy a gun and start carrying was the thought of somebody trying to molest one of my kids after hearing news stories about these type of incidents. I thought about what I would do and it usually boiled down to grab whatever impromptu weapon that was immediately at hand and getting to my child as fast as I could and dealing with the BG any way I could. Thought of my safety and or survival did not seem to be much of a factor in these mental games. I decided that having a tool available that would improve my odds of helping my children and myself walk away from such an incident seemed like a prudent thing to do. CC’ing a pistol seems to be one of the more effective options.
This is from a father’s perspective. I can only imagine that my wife’s protective instincts are 10 fold what mine are…. I know that you are trying to do what is best for your family and value you children above all else, but try to step back and look at the big picture. For me, if somebody is messing with my kids, I will intervene. That is a given. I do not have size or hand to hand skills going for me, so what can I reasonably do to improve my family’s safety…..
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