Used To Carry, But Afraid To Now With My Toddlers

This is a discussion on Used To Carry, But Afraid To Now With My Toddlers within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Limatunes, thank you for that very complete answer. It pretty much sums up my dilemma - the constant movement of toddlers means it's not safe ...

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Thread: Used To Carry, But Afraid To Now With My Toddlers

  1. #31
    New Member Array Mitraillette's Avatar
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    Limatunes, thank you for that very complete answer. It pretty much sums up my dilemma - the constant movement of toddlers means it's not safe to have a gun in my bag anymore, but there may be other carry options (which many have pointed out in here for me). And like you said, I'm trying to make the best decision I can given the situation I'm in. As for other self-defense stuff - I already know a good bit of martial arts, alas, I doubt that would help me in a New Orleans style robbery, especially with my toddlers to defend also...

    I don't think people realize how bad armed robberies can be here. Right after Katrina a lot of regular citizens got their CC permits and bought guns, and there were several cases where the robbers got murdered by the victims (finally!). The police would show up at the scene and let the victims walk without writing up a report because they knew there'd be a retaliation killing. But the thugs got wise to that and started traveling in groups. There have been many cases where couples walking home from dinner were held up by four young guys. Sometimes they'd beat them just to let them know you should never fight back, and sometimes (albeit rarely) they'd just shoot/kill the victims for fun. Other times they'll walk in a cafe or bar, lock the doors, and hold up the entire place like a bank. These tactics are not unique, just too common. I could go on, but basically, I'm having trouble visualizing and strategizing how I could fight back without losing my life or my childrens' in those scenarios. And yes, I have thought of moving, but our entire family is here, and it's home.

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  3. #32
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    Maybe getting out of one of the worst areas in the country would be a start. People where I live a shocked when somebody J-walks.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitraillette View Post
    And yes, I have thought of moving, but our entire family is here, and it's home.
    This is not a criticism or an accusation, just a question: is this where you want to raise your children? What about when they are old enough to be going to school on their own? Out playing and visiting on their own? Dating, driving, jobs after work?

    I didnt realize that crime was that bad there...and I've worked in Manhattan, including Harlem, and never felt that unsafe.

    You and your children have your whole lives ahead of you....NJ was home for me and my family is still there but altho there are many good things about NJ (yes there are!) there is no way I would ever want to live there. It does not suit my lifestyle or support the quality of life I want to have. Many good things in life are started with small steps....but you have to start.

    Good luck to you.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  5. #34
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    be a retaliation killing. But the thugs got wise to that and started traveling in groups. There have been many cases where couples walking home from dinner were held up by four young guys. Sometimes they'd beat them just to let them know you should never fight back, and sometimes (albeit rarely) they'd just shoot/kill the victims for fun

    OK---not really but OK in now i understand ur needs better.
    and they are easy and fast access to a powerful hand gun that is instinctive to fire and accurate also.
    you have some hand-to-hand and that can buy you time to acquire if it happens faster than SA can perceive it.
    how tall and shaped are you-- PM me. I'm leaning toward a Colt defender,BHP alum lower and at least a 642 as a secondary. life comes at ua fast and from many directions.
    fashion needs are a vest with a custom side pocket for the 642; your secondary. the defender is a custom-to-your body shape and dress style.
    a skirt is actually easier to work with than jeans. more training in your near future but 1st get the rigs fit proper. i cant put my hand in your pocket but the defender is $700ish, 100 to fit it and +300 for a 642

    god luck to ua

    as for leaving the area, i can emphasize that some times things conspire to make it that you cant do what you want to, you have to stay the course best you can. this may mean getting mean, being ready and confronting them that wish you to fear them and turn it around. takes balls, takes being properly fitted and trained. she is better than half way there alreaddy. mindset; check: now tools & skills.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitraillette View Post
    ...but basically, I'm having trouble visualizing and strategizing how I could fight back without losing my life or my childrens' in those scenarios.
    ^ Indeed, that's just it, it's impossible to make the call, without being in the moment. There are so many unique variables and even "intangibles" that will govern your decision, in that split second.....

    In having undertaken Force-on-Force as a part of my training, I know that things can go wrong in a heartbeat, that there will arise scenarios we've not even dreamed about or otherwise thought possible.

    The only certainty is that being armed gives you an option that you don't otherwise have.

  7. #36
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    I'm not so sure about what's so unique about crime in New Orleans... And all of us here really do understand the seriousness of any armed robbery. There's nothing special, or different about armed robberies in New Orleans. But that's really immaterial.

    The main obstacle you face in not being able to find solutions to your dilemma; (your inability to visualize and strategize ways to fight back against crime), is a lack of knowledge and education in lethal force, defensive shooting skills and defensive tactics. The ability to acquire this knowledge and information which is critical to solving these dilemma's you point out does not happen overnight, and does not come without some expense and sacrifice. It often involves a serious lifestyle change.

    At some point, you are going to have to either make the effort to learn more, and get some professional training, or resolve yourself to the fact that you won't have very many answers, options or the ability to protect yourself and your children to the level you wish you could.

    It isn't easy. You are going to have to make some sacrifices. You are going to have to adjust your families financial budget to make funds available to attend training and obtain the level of knowledge you need in order to even be able to mentally formulate strategies and apply tactics to successfully defend yourself against crime.

    At this point, you basically have a gun. You don't know how to carry it safely and keep it secure around children; and you don't know how to use it effectively to defend yourself. You do not possess the skills and knowledge necessary to formulate a defensive strategy or understand how to think tactically. In my opinion you are seriously behind the curve in your ability to effectively defend yourself. You see crime all around you and you are frightened by it. And rightfully so. Bad things happen everywhere.

    New Orleans is no different than any other place that bad guys prey on innocent people. The criminals of New Orleans are no more ruthless than they are in other places like the ones who tortured and slaughtered Dr. Petite's entire family in Connecticut a few years ago.

    The knowledge you are seeking does not come to you overnight. It takes a concerted effort on your part, and comes at considerable expense. It takes years to acquire the knowledge and skills necessary to effectively combat crime. It takes a lot of commitment and effort on your part. It also takes sacrifice. The sooner you decide you want to make that commitment the quicker you'll be on the road to being able to effectively defend yourself.

    There are answers to all the questions you are asking here. There are ways in which you can carry a gun and use it effectively to defend yourself and still be safe around your children. The gun is the great equalizer. But rhetoric will get you nowhere. Sweat, determination, training, practice and personal sacrifice will get you there. It's your choice.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #37
    Member Array Lanner's Avatar
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    Why not get a gun with a grip and trigger safety. Pretty darn hard for the kids to screw that up.

    Or a small .380 like the S&W bodyguard that has a manual safety and a HUGE trigger pull.

    Move from purse carry to pocket carry? I dont know how practical that is for a woman. But certainly you could ankle carry a bg .380 or belly band it?

  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    This reply is not listening to the OP. She clearly said 'I'm always putting my purse down'. This is a HABIT and is not easily broken or changed by conscious thought alone. There needs to be another solution, i.e. keeping her HG on her. My thought is to get a white 5.11 conceal shirt. It will work under most clothing as an undershirt, is not hot to wear and you can keep your HG under one arm and wallet, cell and mag under the other.

    Saying 'don't do that (habit)' is like telling a nervous person to 'calm down'. It sounds good and perfectly reasonable but doesn't work in practice.

    $.02

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    I just recently started carrying and I can tell you I feel better having a gun with me when I have the kids in tow. 99.9% chance I won't ever need it, but what if I did? Also, just because we are carrying a weapon doesn't mean I have to pull it either. In some cases it might be a dumb move to go for my gun if the perp has me dead to rights. If I think they will leave when given what they want I may just do that, but if it goes badly anyways, I am gonna go down fighting.

    Not sure if that all makes sense, but it does to me.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    If I think they will leave when given what they want I may just do that, but if it goes badly anyways, I am gonna go down fighting.

    Not sure if that all makes sense, but it does to me.
    Essentially you're letting the bad guy negotiate with your life... And if the bad guy doesn't like the pay off, you're gonna die. At that point, where you say "You'll go down fighting.".. That is pretty much exactly what you'll do... GO DOWN, for the dirt nap. The fact that you were trying to go for your gun means nothing. You'll be toast if you attempt to react at that point. There's really no second place in a gunfight.

    At what point do you plan to draw when he decides he's gonna kill you? When his bullets start coming out of his gun? Because that's likely going to be the first indication he intends to kill you after you've complied. He isn't going to say, "I'm gonna kill you now, so if you have a gun, here's your chance."

    If your plan is to comply at first, and then wait to see if things go bad, there's virtually no way to win at that point. So do your family a favor and pay your life insurance premiums.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  12. #41
    Member Array glockednlocked's Avatar
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    I find I actully carry at least on gun and usually 2 when out with the family. I came to the realization that years of hand 2 hand and edged weapons are useless when holding a baby/toddler. pull them close to block ears and start shooting beats the baby getting stabbed or dropped.

  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanner View Post
    Why not get a gun with a grip and trigger safety. Pretty darn hard for the kids to screw that up.
    ^ That's actually a part of the reason why I chose the XD platform...but I know that it's still not impossible: remember, kids may perceive the gun as being so big that they need to use two hands, and one hand around the grip safety with another that slips to the trigger makes for a very bad day.

    Or a small .380 like the S&W bodyguard that has a manual safety and a HUGE trigger pull.
    Same reason why my alternate-carry is a DAO (albeit one without a manual safety) - but again anything is possible.

    I think that you've given some very good suggestions, don't get me wrong. But that still, the OP needs to realize that she needs positive control over the firearm at all times, be that having the firearm on her person (or in an item that's directly on her and not left out in the open, with a potential for the children to access) or locked-and-secured.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I have a 2 year old and a 9 year old and I carry all the time. Granted my wardrobe does not present any issues to my carrying. The key is on body in a proper holster. There are SO MANY OPTIONS out there regarding holsters and modes of carry (not to mention the myriad of small guns on the market today), you should be able to research and find a handgun and holster combination that will meet your every on-body carry need. There's more available to meet these needs today than ever before.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  15. #44
    Distinguished Member Array Gideon's Avatar
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    Well you've gotten an ear full. After reading your post and all the rest, it boils down to this. Do you want a firearm on you if the unthinkable ever happens. If you say yes, are you willing to use it? If you say yes, are you willing to take on the responsibility and inconvenience of everyday carry? If yes, you need to find a way to carry on person. If you can't, don't. If you're not going to carry, then use good situational awareness and risk assessment to avoide places and situations that may present higher risk. It really sounds to me like you just don't want to mess with carrying anymore.

    It' is something we have to have in the back of our mind every minute that we have a loaded gun with us. That can be wearysome and I just don't think everyone is willing to admit it. When you take it off, unload it, and put it in the safe it's as if your mind can relax just a bit.

    I carry 80% of the time but there are still situations where/when I don't based on risk. It's true that you never know when trouble might find you but that's my choice.

    All of the advise to expose children to guns is good but I would never trust that a young child wouldn't explore and handle a gun even if you took them to the range and let them shoot or let them look at and handle your guns anytime they want like I do (in my prescense). Although this helps you're a fool if you think this eliminates your respnsibility to have any weapon in your immediate control if it's out of the safe and then especially if it's loaded. period, period.

    It's an all or nothing proposition in my book.

    Purse carry is high risk in my opinion. Any off body carry is. A fanny back is a bit better if it's got a real belt buck and not one of these plastic clips. If a person trys to snatch your fanny pack and can just pull it off you then it's every bit as bad as a purse. I've never seen a fanny pack in my life that had anything more than a plastic little clip. That is NOT any kind of security. It's off body carry that's close.

    On body carry is the only option. I can see why a lot of women would go for a .380 so that the gun is small enough but still shootable.

    So I'd make this simple. Want to carry? Yes or No? Willing to carry on body? Yes or No? Willing to change your clothes to accomodate? Yes or No?

    Answer honestly and don't feel like you have to be like others who carry a full size .45 1911 with three extra mags, a fixed blade and shoot every weekend. Be you but consider the risks of your lifestyle.

    Make your decision and make peace with yourself.

    God Bless
    Gideon

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitraillette View Post
    It's been easier to just not carry and make peace with handing over everything to the thugs so my kids and I can live. And yes, in spite of the high murder rate here, they *rarely* kill robbery victims, only other thugs (which is why no one cares). I'm shocked by my own apathy here because I used to be so passionate about "fighting back". But as any parent knows, the urge to protect your children is stronger than anything, and sometimes that means *not* fighting back (as frustrating as it may be). So how do you deal with concealed carrying around children who're too young to learn how to respect guns?
    You have to make your own decisions. However, I would disagree with some of your "assumptions" you are basing those decisions. More and more, robbers are shooting their victims so there are no witnesses to testify against them.

    Personally, I had a man attempt to rob me while my 2 grandkids were with me in a parking lot, and I was glad I was armed and so were they.

    Like anything, keeping the gun on you and out of purse would be the easiest for protection and keeping the kids away from it .. as you have control of it and it goes wherever you do. A fanny pack for guns on you, would also work.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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