Used To Carry, But Afraid To Now With My Toddlers
This is a discussion on Used To Carry, But Afraid To Now With My Toddlers within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I live in New Orleans, and I've always carried - until recently. Now that I have two toddlers I just cannot think of any scenario ...
June 13th, 2011 02:17 PM
Used To Carry, But Afraid To Now With My Toddlers
I live in New Orleans, and I've always carried - until recently. Now that I have two toddlers I just cannot think of any scenario where I pull a gun ending well. Plus, I'm constantly terrified of putting my purse down (there is no way I'd wear a holster under a jacket in this tropical sauna), and that somehow my babies will get into the purse while I'm at a gas station or something. It's been easier to just not carry and make peace with handing over everything to the thugs so my kids and I can live. And yes, in spite of the high murder rate here, they *rarely* kill robbery victims, only other thugs (which is why no one cares). I'm shocked by my own apathy here because I used to be so passionate about "fighting back". But as any parent knows, the urge to protect your children is stronger than anything, and sometimes that means *not* fighting back (as frustrating as it may be).
So how do you deal with concealed carrying around children who're too young to learn how to respect guns?
June 13th, 2011 02:24 PM
Well first of all quit carrying in your purse. There are a number of safe alternatives to purse carry. You could carry IWB with a small frame auto or snub nosed revolver, you could use a smart carry, you could use a pocket holster, you could use a thigh rig if you are wearing a dress or skirt, they even make holsters that clip to your bra and that you can tuck up into the cup. There are a number of ways you can safely carry on body without a OWB holster under a jacket. The person you really need to talk to is Lima. Shes our resident toddler and baby carry expert. The way I handle it around my nieces and my one nephew under 18 is I give them the this is Uncle Chris' gun, do not touch it, do not play with it, do not do anything to mess with it. Then we go to the range and I shoot watermelons to show em the power the gun has. Get a good holster with a good retention, something with a thumb break, thumb slide, anything to lock the gun in place. Just don't take it off your body and it won't be an issue.
"The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."
June 13th, 2011 02:33 PM
Carry on your person. There are quite a few women on this forum that can assist you in making clothing and holster decisions. With children it should be on your person in your control, or locked up. Get one of those small center of mass lock box safes to lock it in at night or at times you cannot have it in your posession, such as in the vehicle.... cheap and easy to lock up In Car Gun Lockers
June 13th, 2011 02:36 PM
having is better than not having
even when having may not be 'in you hand' fast but requires another step to get it to ready-to-fire.
a womans purse with the 'hidden' center zippered pouch with the built in holster is a start--having a
child-proof gun is the goal.
Bersa Thunder 380 is a viable answer. the action locks up tight as anything made by man can be relied upon.
the key is---the key lock on the frame above the trigger. it is large enough to work in a i-need-it-now situation.
of course you have to practice working the lock & key in the dark, with distractions, etc. but having beats wanting,
even if its a few heart beats away.
Bersa, in 380 or 9mm also has a decocker built in with the safety--its is possibly the safest gun on the market today
for sharing the house with children. it looks much like a Walther but....but it works, and at less than half the price.
my daughter trained since she was 12 with mine and now she is taking it with her...i like that cause its a win-win tool.
on your person is harder for women, besides the difference in waist/hips, their clothing tend to be tighter and their
pants pockets are shallow--not even deep enough to place a p380 or j-frame in. and carrying young ones around is a
lot of activity which would necessitate holsters with strap retention. I've custom made some for my wife and daughter
but the purse and the new style plastic clips-to-the bra for a p380 seems the best answer to 80% of their needs.
Arthritis sucks big-big
Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them
June 13th, 2011 02:47 PM
I have done it with a belt holster and untucked shirts. The gun has never been an issue, since my son has gone shooting with us since before he could walk. He is used to seeing guns and thinks nothing more of them than he does a pair of shoes or shirt or any other article that we put on every day. By keeping the gun on my person I don't have to worry about children accidentally getting the gun. Thats me.
The wife however choose to carry in a carry purse up until a year or so ago. I didn't like that option but it was better than leaving it at home. If you carry in a purse, make sure it is one designed specifically for carrying a gun in it. They can be found for reasonable prices if you look around. You can with some effort find a way to carry on your person. The Cornered Cat website might be a place for you to start, not only for carry ideas but for other information regarding your situation. Cornered Cat Lima also would be a good person to talk to, or to review her posts or blogs.
The wife now uses a belly band or a compression shirt. She hates to wear belts and holsters. That is what she has decided works for her. Its her call, I am just glad she is no longer carrying in her purse.
You mentioned that you ultimate goal is the protect your children. That in most situations you would be willing to hand over your purse or other valuables to a robber in order to protect your kids. Nothing wrong with that. But what if the person wants your children? What then? Just because you have the gun on you doesn't mean you have to use it, but if you don't have the gun you simply can't use it even if you need to. Just something to consider.
Oh, and at home, have a gun safe to keep the gun in, not a nightstand or other "hiding place". You can get a safe and bolt it to the wall or secure shelving in a closet up high so that you have quick access to it but the children don't. This one only cost about 40 bucks at big lots and a bit of time to build the rack inside of it.
Here is how we keep our carry guns.
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas Hunter Education Instructor
June 13th, 2011 03:11 PM
I have small children too (6yo, 3yo and 11mo) so I prefer on-person carry. If you can't pull off standard on-person carry due to wardrobe, etc., have you considered a modified fanny pack? I'm by no means an advocate of the fanny pack but I've seen them altered to be attractive.
June 13th, 2011 03:26 PM
Bra holsters, bra clips, and thigh holsters are options, but you may find a belly band most comfortable. I suggest you wear it on body. Otherwise you can keep it loaded in a quick access safe at home or a COM safe in the car. Since you haven't mentioned what gun you will carry, may I suggest Kahr PM9, Ruger SR9, Kel-Tec PF9, Walther PPS9, or Rohrbaugh R9. In revolvers you might consider any S&W J frame or Ruger's LCR. I prefer the 40cal or 357, but control may be an issue. Small size and light weight can make a big difference in comfort. The Kel-Tec P3-AT and Ruger LCP are the smallest and lightest, if you don't mind a 380.
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
June 13th, 2011 03:56 PM
Mitraillette, that's a hard scenario to play.
My daughter is now 5 and 1/2 - she's very good with gun-safety as-age-appropriate (i.e. don't touch it, come get me), but I know that I cannot trust her, no matter what, simply because is *is* a child.
My EDC-pistol (or any gun, for that matter) is either on my body or in a safe, and I consider that a *MUST*, for my personal needs/wants.
You have to figure out what's acceptable for you - the compromises between accessibility for you, in a situation of need, versus keeping the firearm(s) safe from your children. In your situation, as with you, I'd be very hesitant to leave the pistol in a purse, even in a holster designed to hold the firearm in the purse, unless that holster had either multiple retention features or a single feature that made it impossible for a toddler, even by-accident, to access the trigger. In the car, if you must disarm, I would recommend some kind of quick-access safe that can, at the same time, keep the trigger safe: in such a scenario, the biggest danger then becomes when you transfer the pistol from your carry-method (be it on body or off) to the safe, as well as rearming. Good, basic gun-safety is a must, but I think that taking things a step further, in making sure that your kids are not presenting as distractions (or actual danger, if they are up and out of their car seat as soon as you put the vehicle in "park") while you're securing your firearm is also vital to keep in-mind.
In helping you with carry methods, like the others here have said, limalife/limatunes will definitely be someone to seek help from, and also, The Cornered Cat (Cornered Cat) and failiaphotography's YouTube channel can also be a good reference - YouTube - ‪faliaphotography's Channel‬‏ .
And don't forget to search out your local concealed-carry community. There will be many like-minded good-guys/good-gals that will be able to help you and share with you: and what's more, these face-to-face interactions will also give you a chance to perhaps see/try the gear first-hand, to find something that works for you.
Best of luck, and keep safe!
PS: I've also often debated the "just give them everything" tactic.
The problem with this is that it's never a definite. There's no guaranties, in the real-world.
Although there are many factors which made me finally look into firearms for personal protection - as well as to re-start my pursuit of martial arts and personal fitness - I think this one sole realization is among the most compelling driving forces in getting serious.
I'm more than willing to lose any material possession, if that means that will keep my loved ones safe.
But I want the option there.
June 13th, 2011 05:14 PM
Well, first of all, you will need to expose your children to weapons and teach them the destructive nature of the gun. There are also classes and programs out there which addresses this subject. One program is the NRA's Eddie Eagle Program. There are also several books on the topic as well. One of the most authoritative authors on gun safety, and the use of lethal force is a man named Massad Ayoob. If you've never heard of him before, just hang around here long enough and you will. I would recommend his book Gun Proof Your Children which you can get at the provided link for less than five dollars. It's a good starting point and I highly recommend it.
As far as how to carry your gun, there are many options. If you must carry off body, there are many gun purses which has a locking gun compartment. Also there are many ways to carry on your person which is both secure and conducive to carrying in hot humid weather. New Orleans is no more worse than carrying in Alabama, Florida, or even my state of Missouri (95-100 degrees with greater than 75% humidity). Several people here have already mentioned several good methods.
You have to bear in mind that there are tens of thousands police officers who carry guns around their own children with never a mishap. Not all of them are uniformed officers who wear a duty rig. Many of them are plain clothes officers and detectives who's carrying is no different than you would be. And believe it or not, many of those same police officers are single women with small children in the home who learn to handle it safely.
To use your own words, "the urge to protect your children is stronger than anything." The next line, is totally counter-intuitive and in direct conflict with your first statement. One would think that the fact you do have small children, having the means to best protect them is imperative. I do not let the bad guys negotiate with my life and let them decide whether I will live or die. I'm damn sure not going to let that happen with my children or specifically to me, my grandchildren.
Originally Posted by Mitraillette
There are safe ways to carry a gun and there is a responsibility for the gun owner. Some people are up to the task and some aren't. I can't fault you if you decide not to carry a gun for protection because of small children. But don't blame the small children for the decision.
If you truly want to control your life and not leave it up to chance, and the benevolence of the bad guy to spare your life, you will find a way to safely overcome the obstacles and do what is necessary. To think that a robber won't kill you, or your kids if the whim strikes them is to ignore reality and some would say, delusional. Yet plenty of people want to cling to that notion because it's easier to do that than to take the necessary steps to be a responsible protector.
I want to stress... Your ability to safely carry around your children bears a direct correlation to your knowledge base in firearms in general, firearm safety, as well as tactics and your ability to solve problems and your general level of common sense. If you are a novice or inexperienced in any of those areas, it might be best to put away your guns and hope for the best until you do acquire such experience.
Again, I don't fault you or judge you in the least for your decisions. Don't take my post in the wrong spirit in which it was offered. You asked a question and I responded. Generally speaking, if there's a will, there's a way.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
June 13th, 2011 08:01 PM
There are a half of dozen women who will jump on this thread. Cammo Girl, Pax, Bunny are a few that come to mind. PM any one of them and they will be happy to share. Please for the sake of your children please contuine to carry.
I am a father of 3. girl 12 boys 10 and almost 4. I am a believer that if you destigmatise the firearm they will not be temped to go a find it. They know if they ever wish to see daddys guns all they have to do is ask. I will clear the gun and show them it is empty and have them keep it in a safe direction. Finger off the trigger. MY older son will double check that it is clear for himself.
Kids wil be more intrested in the box the gun comes in than the gun if they understand that they can see it anytime they wish.
I will leave it unload within arm reach of them and none of them have given it a second glance.
Mods I think this may be a great Sticky.
June 13th, 2011 09:33 PM
Don't get too comfy in your thoughts. Do you know what the current price for a child is on the white slavery market nowadays? To not carry and hope for the best is simply foolhardy.
"First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
Edge of Darkness
June 13th, 2011 09:51 PM
Since you have been carrying in your purse and that's what you are comfortable with then just keep doing it. You shouldn't ever leave it unattended anyway. What happens when your gun is in your purse locked in the car while you go into a store and all heck breaks loose inside? Try to always keep your gun with you at all times because you never know when evil will come your way. Just make a conscious decision to know where your purse is at all times and put it out of reach of your kiddos when you have to be without it.
"He who does not punish evil commands it to be done." - Leonardo da Vinci
June 13th, 2011 10:40 PM
Fighting back may be what's best if all they want is your money, but what if someone wants to take one of your kids? I'm not a parent but I do have a little sister who is only five. Anyone trying to mess with her will have to do so over my dead body.
June 13th, 2011 11:00 PM
If you live in the world of believing that you can just "hand something over to a thug and he will go away" then you start from a position of validating no concealed carry. We don't carry to protect property (except maybe in Texas), we carry to protect lives.
Good luck, and I really mean that sincerely.
June 13th, 2011 11:09 PM
Yes the bersa .380 is a real cool gun my brother-in-law has one I like how It had the key lock very cool.
Originally Posted by claude clay
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