Armed robbery of Subway (SC)
This is a discussion on Armed robbery of Subway (SC) within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by oakchas
Compliance doesn't always work: >>link<<
You are 100% right. Compliance doesn't always work, especially in the case of the 17 year ...
June 16th, 2011 12:33 PM
You are 100% right. Compliance doesn't always work, especially in the case of the 17 year old idiot from Minnesota. I believe, and those out there that know please correct me, but the workers at the convenience store in Iowa at the time wouldn't have been allowed to have a CCW permit at the time of the crimes. Now if that would have happened today and the owner of the stores was forward thinking those employees would have had the right to protect themselves.
Originally Posted by oakchas
I am happy that the Subway employee wasn't injured, but I have to imagine that he is considering finding another job.
June 16th, 2011 12:50 PM
True, the killings occurred before Iowa became "shall issue." That said, it's possible that the counties the victims lived in at the time were lenient, as mine was, prior to the change in the law.
Unfortunately most of the owners of small one horse town convenience stores are not forward thinking enough, and often suggest "compliance" citing "insurance and liability" issues.
If I ever own a cab company, pizza shop w/wo delivery service, convenience store, etc. I woud want my employees to have a fighting chance. I would offer to pay for permit and training. The training would be required for any one who already had a permit. Carrying would be optional, but strongly encouraged.
It could be worse!
June 16th, 2011 04:24 PM
I've got a renter who wants to pay her rent in cash, $650.00/month.
Originally Posted by Sticks
June 16th, 2011 06:22 PM
I'm calling BS. A guy pulls a HG on you suddenly and you, like 99.999% of the population are ducking and diving. No disrespect, but IRL is not like in Aikido class.
Originally Posted by adric22
June 16th, 2011 10:56 PM
Who he's working for and how much money he's paid has nothing to do with the equation. It's his life on the line. Not Subway's and the money isn't the issue either. The entire time the gunman is in the store he's holding everyone's life. A moderately trained person could have ended this easily.
Originally Posted by GhostRed7
It's not that the clerk would or should intervene to save the store's money. It would be to intervene to keep from getting shot on the whim of a robber.
A lot of people want to give up the cash and hope and pray the robber chooses not to go ahead and kill them anyway. Well, the evidence is in... There are a whole lot of convenience store, and fast food joints these days where the video tape shows a cold blooded killing after the clerk shows no resistance and complies. There have been at least three in Kansas City in the last year that I've seen on the news. And I don't watch the local news on a daily, or even weekly basis. That's too many in my book.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
June 17th, 2011 09:19 AM
PERZACTLY, PLUS ONE!
Originally Posted by Bark'n
Armed robberies (and other criminal acts) are used as gang initiations nowadays. Who knows how far an impressionable youth will go to impress his new "family" with no thought of the probable consequences.
It could be worse!
June 17th, 2011 10:01 AM
Originally Posted by adric22
In your Aikido training - sometime when you practice knife disarms - have your opponent who "attacks" put down his training knife.
Give him the largest, sharpest steak knife from your own kitchen that you - intentionally - take to the dojo that knife training day.
Or get a big, sharp pocket folder from another student
Begin again. Disarm at speed.
Are you willing? Is your partner even willing to play?
See what feelings, if any, rise up.
Where do you have to go mentally to still practice disarm now?
What do you have to do mentally to get there?
What's different now between this and real perp with real knife? Whats still the same?
Do you feel any differently about compliance or explosively getting off the X and running away?
Wear no shirt, just airsoft level head mask/goggles
Cut hole in front portion of trigger guard on airsoft gun so aggressors finger stays safe.
Practice disarms from 3-5 feet against live airsoft with no shirt and shorts
Make getting shot really painful versus painless red or blue gun work.
Allow opponent to empty his airsoft from this distance if he wants if you fail to disarm.
Let opponent holster up with airsoft.
Go do other drills in dojo.
Allow opponent to 'mug' you at his choice, anytime, anywhere while you are at the dojo doing whatever. Bathroom included. You must wear head/eye protection all class
Or he can skip doing it. Keep you honest. How long can you stay hypersensitive in real life?
Same questions as above......
The catch 22 of self defense training is the 'keeping it safe' for the practitioners part.
Where is the "safe" when the real deal happens?
What happens when the Perp rips my training wheels off?
Do I even know I have training wheels on?
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"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
- Frederic Bastiat
June 17th, 2011 01:51 PM
I have considered formal martial arts training. I even had some in my younger years. "Formal martial arts" Karate, Judo, Aikido, and all the rest, have a place. They do increase confidence, stamina, ability to avoid. But they do not truly prepare you for the real world of truly violent crime. There are no tap outs in real life.
Originally Posted by TVJ
Krav Maga and some of the other, more current versions of self defense may give you better options in the real world. Force on force training is probably the best you can do. And, I honestly feel you probably need to get hurt to know what you can fight thru. It's like training with OC spray... If you haven't sprayed your little bottle of pepper spray into the wind, how do you know it won't completely incapacitate you due to an extreme allergic reaction. While the thug on drugs fights thru it, enraged that you tried it on him.
No, I am of an age where I no longer have the ability to physically defend myself. I am currently recuperating from rotator cuff surgery, I have a pretty severe limp. I can do a lot of stuff still... but time and the abuse of my body in my younger years has slowed me down.
For the younger, more agile, the handgun may be further down on the list of defensive tools. For me, it's nearer the top. That said; my years of experience with all types of people from the "dregs" to the "royals", my own cunning, and finally, my weapon and it's effective use, will most likely, allow me to survive an incident in which I am put at risk of grave bodily harm. Possibly, quite possibly without having to even draw my weapon.
I do refuse to be a victim (and that also means that I will not be victimized by not going where I mightn't be "safe" because in reality, no place really is "safe"). I will not hesitate for one moment to defend myself in the gravest extreme.
It could be worse!
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