Already very glad to be carrying...almost drew at work today.

This is a discussion on Already very glad to be carrying...almost drew at work today. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by MadMac I'm hesitant about keeping up this dialogue, but I'm bored today.... Here the story changes. Now you say you personally have ...

Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 3456789 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 128
Like Tree65Likes

Thread: Already very glad to be carrying...almost drew at work today.

  1. #91
    Member Array KindOfBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    94
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    I'm hesitant about keeping up this dialogue, but I'm bored today....

    Here the story changes. Now you say you personally have witnessed him selling drugs out of a neighboring parking lot? Did you call the police?

    If you had drawn on him, I would have loved to be his defense attorney or the DA. Was my client doing anything illegal when you drew your gun? No? Threatening you? How? Were in fear of your life? Why? You say he was known to you as a drug dealer. Did you report him to the police? Did you verify that he was in possession of drugs? How did you know they were drugs? You saw a bulge in his tight pants? How did you know it was a knife? Etc......

    Look it, I'm not trying to be a douche, either, but I have seen dozens of posts where the guy says he felt he had to draw (or nearly did so), and as he is questioned about the facts, the "facts" slowly begin to "evolve". Some guy pumping gas (who may or may not be a drug dealer, and who may or may not have stolen some gas previously) becomes Public Enemy Number One with each new detail that's added.

    You may have wanted to keep your eye on him, but you were under no obligation to verbally spar with the guy. You could have taken the picture, and backed into the station without a word. Instead, you played the tough guy while unsnapping the retention on your carry piece after initiating a confrontation with an unarmed guy doing nothing illegal, and who was minding his own business until you showed up with your cell phone camera. Did I get it approximately right?

    "Experience is what most men call their mistakes."

    ~ Oscar Wilde

    "Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others."

    ~ Otto vonBismarck
    "may or may not" doesn't apply, this guy IS the thief. No if ands or buts. Didn't call the police on him. Had no tag, and he's outta there minutes before cruisers even show up.

    There's nothing wrong with talking to the guy, he began verbal communication and I did nothing wrong by telling him what I was doing. This clearly agitated him, but I wasn't conveying the message to piss him off. Knowing that we're onto him may be all he needs to never show his face again. ...and you must be crazy to think that I'd shoot a guy with no weapon in his hand
    Kind of Blue - Miles Davis (1959). If you haven't heard it, go listen!

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #92
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,095
    Quote Originally Posted by KindOfBlue View Post
    ...and you must be crazy to think that I'd shoot a guy with no weapon in his hand
    I'm crazy to think you'd shoot an unarmed man? Friend, I have no idea who you are, and you know nothing about me. I am only discussing the varying "facts" YOU have presented in this thread. I may be dim-witted, and a slow learner with reading comprehension issues, but I can assure you I'm not crazy.

    You went out to photograph his license plate (for what, I am still not sure). Writing it down on a piece of paper would have been just as effective. You unsnapped your retention strap, you placed your hand on your weapon, and you labelled him a "scumbag" and claim you know for a fact he's a drug dealer. There are whole psychology books written on how labeling people ultimately affects their actions.

    You initiated the confrontation. It matters not who spoke first. If I walk up to a random guy outside a bar, and give him the finger, it doesn't matter who ends up speaking first. I initiated the meeting, and would be considered the aggressor if any type of a fight ensued. I feel I am safe in assuming that when you say, "there was nothing wrong with talking to the guy," you weren't discussing a local rugby competition, or the finer points of Hegelian philosophy. It sounds like angry words were exchanged. Witnesses would happily attest to that fact.

    Look, I'm really glad everyone went home safe. However, I strongly feel your actions in regard to your weapon were entirely unwarranted, and you may not have been so emboldened had you been unarmed. Nothing you wrote convinced me you should have even considered needing a sidearm.

    My comments are worth everything you paid for them. Feel free to treat them as such.

  4. #93
    Member Array KindOfBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    94
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    I'm crazy to think you'd shoot an unarmed man? Friend, I have no idea who you are, and you know nothing about me. I am only discussing the varying "facts" YOU have presented in this thread. I may be dim-witted, and a slow learner with reading comprehension issues, but I can assure you I'm not crazy.

    You went out to photograph his license plate (for what, I am still not sure). Writing it down on a piece of paper would have been just as effective. You unsnapped your retention strap, you placed your hand on your weapon, and you labelled him a "scumbag" and claim you know for a fact he's a drug dealer. There are whole psychology books written on how labeling people ultimately affects their actions.

    You initiated the confrontation. It matters not who spoke first. If I walk up to a random guy outside a bar, and give him the finger, it doesn't matter who ends up speaking first. I initiated the meeting, and would be considered the aggressor if any type of a fight ensued. I feel I am safe in assuming that when you say, "there was nothing wrong with talking to the guy," you weren't discussing a local rugby competition, or the finer points of Hegelian philosophy. It sounds like angry words were exchanged. Witnesses would happily attest to that fact.

    Look, I'm really glad everyone went home safe. However, I strongly feel your actions in regard to your weapon were entirely unwarranted, and you may not have been so emboldened had you been unarmed. Nothing you wrote convinced me you should have even considered needing a sidearm.

    My comments are worth everything you paid for them. Feel free to treat them as such.
    I didn't mean any disrespect. And you're right- we don't know each other at all. I'd never even consider taking a life unless MY life was in immediate danger of being cut short.
    Honestly, if I was unarmed, I would have done the exact same thing. I guess it's just my personality
    Kind of Blue - Miles Davis (1959). If you haven't heard it, go listen!

  5. #94
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    6,960
    Quote Originally Posted by KindOfBlue View Post
    Code:
    80.972 Use of deadly force by individual not engaged in commission of crime; conditions. 
    
    Sec. 2.
    
    (1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies:
    
    (a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual.
    
    (b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual.
    
    (2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.
    This is not the castle doctrine it is the stand your ground doctrine. Please be careful, in MI they are different things. Also, pulling a gun on a person that is un-armed is a bad thing. Like others have recommended a less lethal option would serve well in this situation. If you would like to talk further, I would be willing to do so. Send me a PM, we are both in MI so it shouldnt be a big deal to contact one another.

  6. #95
    Member Array KindOfBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    94
    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    This is not the castle doctrine it is the stand your ground doctrine. Please be careful, in MI they are different things. Also, pulling a gun on a person that is un-armed is a bad thing. Like others have recommended a less lethal option would serve well in this situation. If you would like to talk further, I would be willing to do so. Send me a PM, we are both in MI so it shouldnt be a big deal to contact one another.
    Thanks for the clarification- I thought all of those laws together were called Castle Law. If I have any more questions I won't hesitate to PM you, thank you!

    I've bought some pepper spray and a holder online which I'll also carry at work.
    Kind of Blue - Miles Davis (1959). If you haven't heard it, go listen!

  7. #96
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,095
    Quote Originally Posted by KindOfBlue View Post
    I didn't mean any disrespect. And you're right- we don't know each other at all. I'd never even consider taking a life unless MY life was in immediate danger of being cut short.
    Honestly, if I was unarmed, I would have done the exact same thing. I guess it's just my personality
    I know you meant no disrespect, and I deeply appreciate your candor. Thanks for fun and enlightening discussion! You're a great addition here.

    There is no right or wrong in a sense, we are all learning as we go.

  8. #97
    Member Array KindOfBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    94
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    I know you meant no disrespect, and I deeply appreciate your candor. Thanks for fun and enlightening discussion! You're a great addition here.

    There is no right or wrong in a sense, we are all learning as we go.
    I look forward to being a part of this community, and great discussion in the future! Thanks for the welcome.
    Kind of Blue - Miles Davis (1959). If you haven't heard it, go listen!

  9. #98
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,447
    I wouldn't have confronted a suspected drug dealer and shown my weapon towards him.

    Also, would you have confronted this customer if you didn't have a gun?

    And, what if this guy had got in his car and called the police saying, this guy at the gas station just accused me of stealing gas and put his hand on his gun and threatened me?
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  10. #99
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Gulf Coast of Florida
    Posts
    9,331
    Quote Originally Posted by KindOfBlue View Post
    "may or may not" doesn't apply, this guy IS the thief. No if ands or buts. Didn't call the police on him. Had no tag, and he's outta there minutes before cruisers even show up.

    There's nothing wrong with talking to the guy, he began verbal communication and I did nothing wrong by telling him what I was doing. This clearly agitated him, but I wasn't conveying the message to piss him off. Knowing that we're onto him may be all he needs to never show his face again. ...and you must be crazy to think that I'd shoot a guy with no weapon in his hand
    A prosecuting attorney would have a field day with you in court. Lets say it escalated and you fired. The guy is innocent until proven guilty. No ifs ands or buts. The guy was not committing a crime at this point and you couldn't prove he had in the past.

    Initiation is you chose to engage in an act that lead to the interaction, then escalated it by choosing to stay and converse.

    Now, the only question is was it 1st degree, 2nd degree, or voluntary manslaughter. If it came up in court via testimony of you, a witness, or the video surveilance that you unhooked your handy dandy velcro retention strap before you innocently went outside to take a picture that could be construed (or at least heavily argued to influence judge and jury) as premeditation. If all you were doing was innocently taking a picture which did not instigate then why did you unhook your retention strap? Because you knew what you were going to do before you ever chose to leave your post in the store. See how easily a DA can make the argument? If nothing else, that's leverage to strike a plea deal to something less than 1st degree. You have to remember, the DA is an elected position (at least in my state) and they campaign on conviction rates. They are not really concerned with reality, but winning. You may not have had said intentions, but they will sure make it seem that way and you haven't done a thing to help yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by KindOfBlue View Post
    ...Honestly, if I was unarmed, I would have done the exact same thing. I guess it's just my personality
    This is an important statement. The fact that you are now armed means you should approach situations in a different manner. That's maturity. That's responsibility over personality.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  11. #100
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,749
    Fools go where wise men fear to tread.


    Some professional training is in order.
    BugDude likes this.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  12. #101
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    7,624
    don't make comments, take the picture and walk back inside.... all else was unnecessary.

    Here, that could constitute "initiating " the confrontation, which automatically denies you ever using "self-defense" anything at your trial.

    Just saying , that's the way it is here.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  13. #102
    Member Array KindOfBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    94
    Quote Originally Posted by varob View Post
    I wouldn't have confronted a suspected drug dealer and shown my weapon towards him.

    Also, would you have confronted this customer if you didn't have a gun?

    And, what if this guy had got in his car and called the police saying, this guy at the gas station just accused me of stealing gas and put his hand on his gun and threatened me?
    As I said before, he didn't see my handgun. Also as I said before, I didn't confront him in my eyes, but I would have done the same with no gun
    Kind of Blue - Miles Davis (1959). If you haven't heard it, go listen!

  14. #103
    Member Array KindOfBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    94
    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    A prosecuting attorney would have a field day with you in court. Lets say it escalated and you fired. The guy is innocent until proven guilty. No ifs ands or buts. The guy was not committing a crime at this point and you couldn't prove he had in the past.

    Initiation is you chose to engage in an act that lead to the interaction, then escalated it by choosing to stay and converse.

    Now, the only question is was it 1st degree, 2nd degree, or voluntary manslaughter. If it came up in court via testimony of you, a witness, or the video surveilance that you unhooked your handy dandy velcro retention strap before you innocently went outside to take a picture that could be construed (or at least heavily argued to influence judge and jury) as premeditation. If all you were doing was innocently taking a picture which did not instigate then why did you unhook your retention strap? Because you knew what you were going to do before you ever chose to leave your post in the store. See how easily a DA can make the argument? If nothing else, that's leverage to strike a plea deal to something less than 1st degree. You have to remember, the DA is an elected position (at least in my state) and they campaign on conviction rates. They are not really concerned with reality, but winning. You may not have had said intentions, but they will sure make it seem that way and you haven't done a thing to help yourself.



    This is an important statement. The fact that you are now armed means you should approach situations in a different manner. That's maturity. That's responsibility over personality.
    I don't really see unhooking the retention strap as a premeditated action, as many holsters come with no retention whatsoever. However, I can see that from a DA's point of view. Never really occured to me. This was a good learning experience for me.
    Kind of Blue - Miles Davis (1959). If you haven't heard it, go listen!

  15. #104
    Member Array KindOfBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    94
    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Fools go where wise men fear to tread.


    Some professional training is in order.
    100 replies and you're the first to call me a fool...A little upsetting until I saw your avatar! Lol
    Kind of Blue - Miles Davis (1959). If you haven't heard it, go listen!

  16. #105
    Member Array Wynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    47
    Your gas station should buy a cheap set of binoculars to get plate numbers for drive offs. The stations around here keep a pair by the counter.

    And learn everything you can from this site. You represent every one of us when you choose to carry concealed, and you need to make right decisions. Don't let your ego get in the way. Keep that gun in the holster until you start to see your life flash before your eyes. Use your gun as a way to avoid confrontation, not find it.

    It seems like you're soaking up as much advice as possible in this thread, and that's good. Be smart and be safe.

Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 3456789 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

can i brandish my weapon at the gas station i work at
,
can i carry a gun if i work at a gas station
,
can i carry at work at gas station
,
can you carry gun to gas station work
,
drew my gun
,
drew my weapon
,

free license plate lookup

,
glad carry
,
glad i had my gun with me
,

glad i was carrying

,
gun already drawn on you
,
gun forum glad i had my gun
,
in missouri can i carry at work
,
washington state license plate lookup
,
work gas station missouri can i carry a gun?
Click on a term to search for related topics.