Already very glad to be carrying...almost drew at work today.

This is a discussion on Already very glad to be carrying...almost drew at work today. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by KindOfBlue As I said before, he didn't see my handgun. Also as I said before, I didn't confront him in my eyes, ...

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Thread: Already very glad to be carrying...almost drew at work today.

  1. #106
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KindOfBlue View Post
    As I said before, he didn't see my handgun. Also as I said before, I didn't confront him in my eyes, but I would have done the same with no gun
    You've said this twice on this page now...and if you still think this after 100 posts, you are missing a very big point.

    If you are carrying a firearm, you *cannot* act the same way as if you were not carrying. You will be held to a higher legal standard and a higher standard of behavior is expected. Have you heard of the expression "taking the High Road?"

    Carrying the gun, ANY actions or discussion on your part that initiate or escalate a confrontation will be laid at your door if you brandish or fire that gun. Because it will be expected that you would do absolutely everything possible to avoid or retreat from the confrontation before employing deadly force.

    For your own safety and financial sake (and even your freedom), please look further into this aspect of becoming a responsible cc'er.


    Edit: ok, twice on the *last* page :-)
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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  3. #107
    eb
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    I guess the main thing that occurred to me in reading this thread was what if that bulge in his pocket WAS a knife? If he pulled it and came toward you in a threatening manner, you may have drawn and fired (I know many of us probably would have to in this instance). However, I don't think you'd have fared well in the court system after the fact because of the nature of the entire encounter. In my opinion, if you know a guy is a scumbag and guilty of some crime, get as much information as you can in the most innocuous way possible, and notify the police to let them sort it out. A good example of this would have been to walk out there with a trash bag or something and pretend you were checking the trash. Glance at the plate, memorize it, then go back inside, etc.

    Not that it needs repeating, but the owner of that station is ASKING for this stuff to happen. I have not seen a non-prepay gas station in years! Thanks for posting man, I would say your story made me think, and as a result, I think I learned something.

  4. #108
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I gotta tell you,I been carrying 5 years now as a civilian,I'm about 20 miles from Mexico and there is a lot of serious crime down here,In 5 years I have never felt threatened in a situation to where I felt I may have to draw my weapon.I carry a gun the same way I have insurance on my house and my vehicles I hope I never need it,but If I ever do I'll have it.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  5. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by KindOfBlue View Post
    I don't really see unhooking the retention strap as a premeditated action, as many holsters come with no retention whatsoever. However, I can see that from a DA's point of view. Never really occured to me. This was a good learning experience for me.
    You're in court, how you see it doesn't matter. Only how 12 people not smart enough to get out of jury duty see it after the DA plants the seeds in their minds. Your defense attorney has talked to you enough to know not to put you on the stand. He makes the argument that not all holsters have retention straps. The DA agrees that not all holsters have retentions straps, but the one you were wearing does and you made a conscious decision and deliberate action to unhook it before initiating the contact indicating you had conscious forethought about using your firearm in this particular interaction at this specific time and took action ahead of time to make it more accessible. How is your defense attorney going to get that out of their minds now?

    This thread has really been thought provoking...I hope it causes all of us to take a few steps back and put things into perspective. The DA has hindsight and plenty of time to come up with theories to fill in the gaps between whatever facts are known and the point he is trying to make. Reality really does not matter at this point...only the perception of the jurors.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  6. #110
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    why would your gun be in a velcro retention holster? if your gun is secure on your person you don't have to worry about getting into a fist fight, brandishing any part of a firearm in some states will get you a menicing charge,and loss of your ccw.just because you carry a gun doesn't mean you're the worlds hero,get some training!

  7. #111
    KoB
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    Quote Originally Posted by KindOfBlue View Post
    I wasn't even close to making that decision about someone's life. Far from it.
    I can't see how snapping a picture of a thief for evidence purposes is considered a crime anywhere!
    IMO…when you (OP) posted in one of your earlier post: "you took the Velcro strap off on the holster" (I'm paraphrasing)…it was then, that you WERE that close to making that decision. I'm not a lawyer, but IMO you were preparing yourself for CONFRONTATION with that one slight move. NOT A LAYWER, but, I see a legal snag there, with a keen DA saying "he intentionally took the Velcro strap off looking for CONFRONTATION in which he could use his weapon".

    As someone previously posted, "you might want to consider a NEW HOLSTER w/o the Velcro strap"

    …


    KMB, I

  8. #112
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    This whole discussion reminds me of a thread some time ago, that posed the question:

    Is there a difference between ready for a fight and looking for a fight? Which is the better position to be in? (that answer should be obvious)
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
    1 Thess. 5:16-18

  9. #113
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    My friend, I know this guy named Tyrone, and he is gonna love you! Ive read this entire thing, and some awfully smart and experienced people have been tryin to give you some good advice, but I dont think you are getting it. But you will. Tyrone will be there for ya!
    paullie likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  10. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by KindOfBlue View Post
    No idea what I would have done if he shoved me.
    See, that's a major problem with a lot of people who carry a gun. A lot of folks have no idea how to act or respond to any given circumstance they may face in a confrontation. Especially when their opponent is not obviously armed during the encounter, but are merely acting like a thug.

    Someone comes up and gets in your face and gives you a couple of shoves. Maybe asks for some money... what are you going to do? You pull out your gun and shoot them, you may be quite surprised how the police view that.

    If you are not sure how to act against unarmed encounters which happen at the drop of a dime, I would be very weary about having a gun on my hip as my only solution.

    So many people feel they don't need additional training in tactics, gun fighting, or lethal force. Well, that's fine, but you're taking a huge gamble that your limited knowledge is going to see you through the day. One of these days you're going to crap out and then your life is over.

    Maybe your wife and kids will wait for you to get out of prison. Maybe they'll decide to move on with their lives and look for someone who isn't a "gun nut" and seems to be a more stable provider.
    NC Bullseye likes this.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  11. #115
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    ..and you must be crazy to think that I'd shoot a guy with no weapon in his hand
    If you had drawn and he continued to approach then what other choice would you have had? Put the gun back into it's holster and procede with a fist fight? You and I might agree that you would be in reasonable fear for your life at that point but as a young male the prosecutor and jury probably won't see it that way.

    Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

  12. #116
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    Good judgement comes from experience....and a lot of experience comes from bad judgement.
    BkCo1 likes this.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  13. #117
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    G-man, does your friend Tyrone know my friends Tiny and Bubba by chance?
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  14. #118
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    Ok bottom line when carrying is how is this going to look. That is you’re first thought before you initiate any kind of contact with someone that you think may be a problem.

    As for the standing your ground how close did you let him get is going to enter also a simple loud and clear command to STOP with your weak hand raised if there is enough distance between you would be prudent. It is most important how you handle the situation in the event a death should occur.

    And bottom line you did confront him which will look bad. Not undefendable but not a good way to start things.

    Also very important, it would seem to me that you’re not capable of talking to the police on your own. Case in point is the admission that you removed the Velcro, indicating you were looking for a fight just so you could gun down another human being.

    If you’re going to pull the gun don’t point at anything but what you intend to shoot. If you feel you need to use it then do so. That does not necessarily mean that you need to fire it. But it does most certainly mean that you have made the decision that if it comes to it, you will fire and that there are no questions to your choice of actions.

    The last thing you want in a situation like that is your opponent to think you don’t have what it takes to shoot him because he will surely act on it and grab your gun and take it from you, which means it will end badly for you.

    You need to take some time thinking about what you are going to do in a life threating situation long before it comes to you.
    Some situational awareness thinking can go a long way.

  15. #119
    Member Array KindOfBlue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    My friend, I know this guy named Tyrone, and he is gonna love you! Ive read this entire thing, and some awfully smart and experienced people have been tryin to give you some good advice, but I dont think you are getting it. But you will. Tyrone will be there for ya!
    Yeah you're right. I'm clearly not taking anything from this. [/sarcasm]
    Kind of Blue - Miles Davis (1959). If you haven't heard it, go listen!

  16. #120
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    See, that's a major problem with a lot of people who carry a gun. A lot of folks have no idea how to act or respond to any given circumstance they may face in a confrontation. Especially when their opponent is not obviously armed during the encounter, but are merely acting like a thug.

    Someone comes up and gets in your face and gives you a couple of shoves. Maybe asks for some money... what are you going to do? You pull out your gun and shoot them, you may be quite surprised how the police view that.

    If you are not sure how to act against unarmed encounters which happen at the drop of a dime, I would be very weary about having a gun on my hip as my only solution.

    So many people feel they don't need additional training in tactics, gun fighting, or lethal force. Well, that's fine, but you're taking a huge gamble that your limited knowledge is going to see you through the day. One of these days you're going to crap out and then your life is over.

    Maybe your wife and kids will wait for you to get out of prison. Maybe they'll decide to move on with their lives and look for someone who isn't a "gun nut" and seems to be a more stable provider.
    If Bark'n lived in NC I would swear he had taken one of my classes. Every time I have a class on the laws governing the use of deadly force this is a major part of the discussion. If all you prepare for is the extreme you will only react with extremes. You have to have a preplanned response to every level of force you can encounter, from mere presences to verbal to soft hands to hard hands to things like OC and tasers to impact weapons to lethal force.

    Walking away at the very first sign of tension is a good equalizer and it gives distance to react if things do not deescalate.

    If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail. This saying is sometimes overused but truer statements rarely apply any more than this does to self defense.
    KindOfBlue likes this.

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