Planned Bug In Place...Whats To Have?

This is a discussion on Planned Bug In Place...Whats To Have? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; kelcarry....and let us not forget the episode where the aliens 'play' with the towns folks electricity...let the casting of aspersion's begin. hamlet--golf and lots of ...

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    kelcarry....and let us not forget the episode where the aliens 'play' with the towns folks electricity...let the casting of aspersion's begin.

    hamlet--golf and lots of range time...wwanna pop them bad boy townies from 600 yards....or not at all?

    az---its why i like ua....you see to the heart, errr--brains of the matter

    Bark'n--you come real close to the direction i was heading: them on he outside can survive without the cities; not so much the other way around

    first sarg--I've either taught or attended those type classes but for basic EMT, there a neighbor thats a firefighter/EMT would fit well in the "cave"

    --->I'm along the lines of economic collapse that the govt just can not hide nor lie away. the resulting lose of social services ( and SS) will make for the many a tough period in time. which i guess to be less than 3 months. but more that 3 weeks. our country and its leadership as it is today could not handle a Great Depression. all them years ago didn't do all that well either--but the many did survive.

    i live in CT between NYC and Boston...not a good location. actually, not good in many ways, even in our oh so great present economy.
    and at my age id be bugged by what happens, but not to the point of movin on.
    stay in place with 3 months of food, water, meds--the basics; and listen daily on the ham radio with my ultra quiet generator.

    thank you all.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
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    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    There is a considerable difference between social unrest/riots/etc and TEOTWAWKI.

    The former generally starts in the inner cities and may move to the suburbs. That depends on the size of the social unrest/riot/etc and the forces that are brought to bear to quell it. Commerce (food, etc) and services (electricity, nat gas, water, gasoline) outside the areas involved are usually unaffected.

    The latter is an entirely different matter. Depending on the nature of the event, commerce and services will likely cease over wide areas, if not virtually everywhere. Movement by vehicle near heavily populated areas will probably be difficult or untenable due to abandon vehicles on freeways and highways.
    Where these two types of situations intersect is described in the Chris Bird book, Thank God I Had A Gun, and also here: HURRICANE KATRINA

    Offered as a real-world example, from which to draw your own conclusions about elements of preparedness.
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  4. #18
    TVJ
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    TEOTW.....I find it a big canard.

    TEOTW comes with a whole host of unknowns and paranoia and unrealistic assumptions. Like, say, I am still alive. LoL. Ok then.

    I rather prepare for a natural event like Katrina for example and think that way. There is data on it. You can read about the problems. It actually does happen. See Gasmitty's post and links above this post.

    TEOTW...you may be dead immediately. Living in Washington DC, you are vapor in the event of TEOTW nuclear War. A group hug and sharing love for one another is way more important at that moment IMO.

    Gold coins have problems: Are you going to shave off the gold to pay for small buys of things? How do you keep track of what gold is worth at any given moment? Gold futures/Spot market trade essentially 24/7 and the price will be extremely volatile in this situation.

    Where do you get your quotes to show the current value when you pay for stuff? To make sure you avoid getting ripped off? If you can get quotes on your Android phone, is it really TEOTW? How do you agree with anyone on the price. You want higher value, they want lower. Gold is very problematic from a practical sense. It sounds good, but delve deeper into its actual practical application/substitution for dollars and fungible credit.

    Then there is the issue of huge .gov taxation of gold in one fell swipe of the pen. Or .gov states you can only trade gold for dollars at certain too big to fail banks, that trade with you at a big discount to profit and discourage trading of gold, but can confirm the value of gold numismatic-ally and TAX you heavily on the spot. Gold is the financial enemy to .gov in TSHTF scenario. Do you think they will just tacitly allow their fiat currency that gives all their financial power to be voluntarily eroded? Think Nixon and Bretton Woods; Think FDR and gold confiscation. Both really occurred under extremely stressful financial situations.



    Diamonds are below the radar currently. GIA certifications for value standardization. And you can hide them easily, they are light...etc. Diamonds have problems too. Like no active trading markets, huge bid ask spreads with singular local sellers/pawnshops....etc

    Gold fraud will be massively lucrative during TEOTWAWKI. Who the hell can tell whats real at the grocery store, buying something from an individual; How many numismatists exist to value and certify your gold is real? at the store.....at first its fine....once the fraud starts and catches fire, who trusts gold then.

    Become a numismatist for your new post apocalypse job.

    Have a stash of hard cash. ATM cash gets rationed, will go immediately. Cash is gold right up front. Everyone uses it/will go to it until they realize hard items matter more. Credit cards can freeze up due to banking credit crunch, downed communication lines at point of purchase...etc.

    Collect real, useful items/tools if you need something to do/trade.

    Supply chain breakdown: Everyone needs food and fuel and drinking water and car/truck/vehicle parts, tires/repair kit. Either people barter for it with other goods or steal/take by force to survive.

    I suggest a water source and purifier like this: http://www.nitro-pak.com/products/wa...bonus-pak-kit; things to hold purified water; maybe a generator.

    If you run your lights when no one else can, you become a pretty obvious target.

    I agree with Shockwave and helping out. CC while doing so.

    If you dig in at a particular place, problems occur if that place gets too hot (too many zombies...lol....nuclear accident...total natural disaster...whatever). Living in DC, you are scorched earth and dust in a nuclear war.

    Frankly, I prefer to have a truck, camper and essentials for living for a month or two, along with self defense tools, easily packed and ready to go. Cash to backup CCards/ATM which may be problematic. Have a shotgun and lots of ammo as one of your tools. Crowd control: Bounce the rounds off the pavement in front of the crowd to start if appropriate. Less than lethal and gets your point across without outright killing anyone.

    Just drive somewhere away from the problem area for an extended camping trip. Make it fun. Drive to a place of moderate climate next to a full water source/lake/river.

    Make sure family members know how to shoot if/when you leave. Make sure they can emotionally pull the trigger. Give them permission. Make it OK. Work through the emotional glitches/issues supportively.

    Stay away from unprepared people asking for stuff where you put down/live. They are high risk to take your stuff. Keep family close. I read real stories of desperate people during Katrina holding a family member and/or pet hostage using lethal tools for food/equipment. Avoid this. Be a very hard target. Find other ways to give back and help if possible. If someone gets the drop, Find/Create the low risk moment - maybe through a feigned compliance tactic(s) if no other choice - and kill them with immediacy to neutralize them. Keep your family safe. What happens if word gets out you are a low risk convenience store with lots of important stuff to survive.

    Argentina had sudden economic stop in 2001 and no TEOTW....mobs yes. Violence yes. Go here for a guy that knows it firsthand: SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA He avoids tinfoil like plague.

    Your ability to think creatively on your feet is just as important as any of the above. So is sustained optimism and making "everyday life" fun to keep moral at a baseline constant hopeful/optimistic level. Get lots of board games. No one seems to talk about this. Therefore, I know odds are its really important. The stuff people "always" talk about, maybe not so much.

    Zombies provide so much more emotional juice than this boring stuff. Stay away from tinfoil hat wearers, gold bugs, paranoia freaks. Unless I guess you are addicted to the emotional juice they stoke. That internal juice is mostly incompatible with successful, practical survival IMO.

    At the end of the day, I rather plan for some unrest/mob/temporary natural disaster then TEOTW. All the things I need for the unrest/mob/temporary natural disaster apply first anyways.
    Last edited by TVJ; July 2nd, 2011 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Gasmitty links
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    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
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  5. #19
    TVJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Where these two types of situations intersect is described in the Chris Bird book, Thank God I Had A Gun, and also here: HURRICANE KATRINA

    Offered as a real-world example, from which to draw your own conclusions about elements of preparedness.

    YES!
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
    - Frederic Bastiat

  6. #20
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    Hyper-focus on fear produces more fear, not security.


    The proximate threat the OP faces isn't social Armageddon but mental Armageddon. His mind will kill his life.
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  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    TVJ---- we are not on the same page—

    I have been talking around a social/ economic collapse that is nation wide. no way are nukes a part of this scenario.
    As for gold—i said ‘small’ gold and silver. Such as gold dimes (today around $200 each) and silver coin...ounces at $35. 4000 or more years of civilization and gold been used as barter, so there is a system in effect to allow for people to exchange goods and services for metal. And getting ‘ripped off’. Depends on how astute you are with the barter system and the value of ‘things’ such as people’s time and what a products value is to you and the person who has it.

    Your truck, camper starts off as viable but than many others are doing the same and you need gas to get places and water when you get there....along with everyone else who got there also. This morphs into a ‘tent’ city and i fear that the strong will rule there.

    Firearms are necessary. More for gathering food than crowd control. I say this cause you will likely not be the only one in a crowd with a gun. And people do tend to reply in kind to incoming. Perhaps shooting to make a last ditch effort to get away; but than your tactics were not good to begin with ( or you turned down the wrong road...) and fate is eventually going to catch up to you.

    Argentina may for my example a good study. I have not read the book you suggest though how well it would cross over to the USA ( and different events may be unfolding mer miles apart) can be debated.in this case But im going at this with families in mind ans staying under the radar is one of my riteria.

    I think i am understanding your last sentence to be as i had in mind.

    It could well be a series of acts by nature that precedes the economic troubles; Japan is very quiet about is troubles.....rather ominous given their position as a world power. And OPEC is talking about a “OPEC Dollar” that would have grave consequences to the US Dollar in the worlds financial arena. But our leader and the press seem to think this event is not worth sharing with those who will most be affected by it---the tax payer who elected them.
    For sure we live on borrowed money and the rates would be higher...and we are now realizing that we can not even afford the current interest on our loans.

    Thoughts?
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
    Hyper-focus on fear produces more fear, not security.


    The proximate threat the OP faces isn't social Armageddon but mental Armageddon. His mind will kill his life.
    hamlet, you are of course entitled to an opinion as am i .....please refer to my sig line as my opinion of your statement.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  9. #23
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    hamlet, you are of course entitled to an opinion as am i .....please refer to my sig line as my opinion of your statement.
    You are in the world of the imagination - only during the Cuban Missile Crisis would this stuff have been an actual response to reality and to the real chance of overwhelming danger - yet few of us did any of these things even then. We just watched JFK and the News, lived our lives and had faith.


    There are no indications now or in our history that would make these thoughts or preparations a response to reality - there's just life as usual - including bad economies for awhile and all that. If you want to take every negative as promising catastrophe, you'll find more negatives and more catastrophe.

    The Blackhawks are not coming, take your family out to a street-fair and stop and have some sodas on the way home. Close the bunker up - which is behind your forehead - for all your sakes - and seek some counseling if you can't. Life is short........

    Best of luck.
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  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    hamlet---you so obviously read what you want and leave out what you don't....
    the entire thread is a foolie.....i said i live in CT and other things you so obviously read past as to make further discussion with you, well...

    ---------------------

    it is pointless to argue with a moron.
    they will drag you down to their level and than beat you with experience. LL
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  11. #25
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    hamlet---you so obviously read what you want and leave out what you don't....
    the entire thread is a foolie.....i said i live in CT and other things you so obviously read past as to make further discussion with you, well...

    ---------------------

    it is pointless to argue with a moron.
    they will drag you down to their level and than beat you with experience. LL
    OK.

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    IMHO there is nothing wrong with taking care of yourself and family by being prepared to a level that you can afford and be comfortable with.

    Collectively, as citizens, our levels of preparedness is a factor that helps support the resilience of our country.

    If SHTF I know which side of the fan I want to be on.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    hamlet---you so obviously read what you want and leave out what you don't....
    the entire thread is a foolie.....i said i live in CT and other things you so obviously read past as to make further discussion with you, well...

    ---------------------

    it is pointless to argue with a moron.
    they will drag you down to their level and than beat you with experience. LL
    I live in Texas but also in CT, mid-way between Boston and NY. At my particular rabbit hole in CT it is a great location for survival. I doubt that I am any more safe in Central Texas than I would be in eastern CT. I don't think you can validate your fears based on your being about 100 miles from two major cities.

    In any case, as someone who was a young man during the Cuban Missile Crisis, a time in our nation's history when there WAS real and actual danger of the big one, I can tell you that life went on normally. We had faith in our military and in our government, and though things were pretty hairy, most folks knew in their hearts that the Russians would back down.

    Hamlet has a very valid point. We do not presently have external enemies capable of doing global harm to our nation. We have a military with far greater response ability than back then. Bad stuff can happen of course as it did on 9/11, but no other nation is going to take us out in some massive violent attack.

    Keep it in perspective. Things might happen which could cause temporary local gas or food or medicine shortages. Be prepared with modest supplies, but what you are talking about goes beyond what folks did during the darkest and most dangerous days of the cold war.

    Stay cool and take the family to see the tall ships at Mystic.

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    how to say it so it is understood----ITS A SCENARIO

    i have no fears, planing for things and enjoy life are not mutually exclusive. we BOTH it seems grew up during the Cuban Missile Crises yet the faith we had in our government ( lies even than-but thats neither here nor there in this discussion) faith, we no longer have. but that doesn't change my day-to-day way of doing things either. one can know they are being lied to: accept that it is the way things are done and get on with it.

    hamlets global direction had not a thing to do with my asking about how it is if our inner cities went without food for a few days...not just one or two cities cause of weather or earthquake, but economic upheaval that the govt could not gloss over. no bombs. no foreign invasion. read what was postulated.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  15. #29
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    how to say it so it is understood----ITS A SCENARIO

    i have no fears, planing for things and enjoy life are not mutually exclusive. we BOTH it seems grew up during the Cuban Missile Crises yet the faith we had in our government ( lies even than-but thats neither here nor there in this discussion) faith, we no longer have. but that doesn't change my day-to-day way of doing things either. one can know they are being lied to: accept that it is the way things are done and get on with it.

    hamlets global direction had not a thing to do with my asking about how it is if our inner cities went without food for a few days...not just one or two cities cause of weather or earthquake, but economic upheaval that the govt could not gloss over. no bombs. no foreign invasion. read what was postulated.
    I think we know what you postulated but we didn't know that it was fictional or a disguised point you were making - whatever the post was.

    Our responses were to a hyper-inflation of danger that that post contained - and it was pointed out by comparison to one real historical danger to show the post's is a psychological/attitudinal matter rather than an external problem. The fact that the actual event was a threatened external attack and your post's a cataclysmic domestic collapse is beside the point.

    Might help to post "Fictional Scenario" or something similar at the top....

  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    quote from hamlet in bold--Might help to post "Fictional Scenario" or something similar at the top.... and so it continues that i am being drug down...


    ""The term scenario is also used for an account or synopsis of a projected course of action, events or situations. Scenario development is used in policy planning, organisational development and generally, when organisations wish to test strategies against uncertain future developments.

    Scenarios are widely used by organisations of all types to understand different ways that future events might unfold. Scenario planning or scenario analysis is a complex business process related to futures studies.

    In this sense, scenarios should not be used to speculate on what has happened in the past. According to the Forecasting Dictionary, a scenario is “a story about what happened in the future”. Vivid scenarios distort people's perceptions of the likelihood of the events they describe. Scenarios can therefore be used to overcome resistance to unpopular forecasts. Gregory and Duran (2001) [1] examine principles for the use of scenarios in gaining acceptance of forecasts.""

    with due difference to Wiki and the BOLD is mine.
    and for sure there seems to be some resistance here.

    as well as a distinct lack of knowledge by some that the term scenario means fictional.

    thread drift here is major--if it can not be brought back in line than perhaps.....let it go.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

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