Issue with the neighbor - Page 3

Issue with the neighbor

This is a discussion on Issue with the neighbor within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; See Chevy SS's post on this page: mini camera. Size of a pack of gum and only $60.00. You need it now! Do not talk ...

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Thread: Issue with the neighbor

  1. #31
    Member Array mwhich50's Avatar
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    See Chevy SS's post on this page: mini camera. Size of a pack of gum and only $60.00. You need it now! Do not talk to him. He obviously has no moral compass. If what you said is true, he tried to get you thrown in jail. Brandishing is a felony with manditory jail time in Florida. I have a CCP but have never carried due to this type of BS. For now it will just have to be me and my trusty Spydercos.


  2. #32
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    1. You need to talk with a lwayer.
    2. As far as I know, a CC permit "allows" one to carry concealed. It no way implies the holder "must" carry concealed when open carry is permitted, such as on your own property/business.
    3. If the neighbor ever enters your property again without your express permission, have him trespassed.
    Yeah, I know in my state you are allowed to open-carry on your own property. However, as we've discussed in other threads, the police don't always know they law. They are not even required to know the law. They certainly don't like to be lectured about it. I've never walked around in my front or back yard openly-carrying a gun. Although I do shoot "replica" BB guns in my back yard that are nearly indistinguishable from the real thing. Nobody has called the cops on me for that, and I know one neighbor has seen me shooting them. So I guess they realize since there is no "boom" with each shot, that they must be BB guns. But if one day I decided to open-carry a gun on my hip while mowing my front lawn where the whole street can see, I wouldn't be at all surprised to have the police show up. And I honestly would not expect them to have researched the laws on the matter before hand.

  3. #33
    Member Array SC Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdf3834 View Post
    How do you know the OP is in Missouri?

    In SC, you cannot open carry. The CC permit allows you to do only that...concealed carry.

    2 points to make:

    1) You've learned a lesson Benjamin Franklin stated a long time ago: "Neither a lender nor borrower be." Borrowing stuff makes for sour relations.

    2) You have now engaged in what SC would call "mutual combat" with your neighbor. No matter what happens in the future, it would be very difficult for you to prove a justifiable shooting if you are attacked. Be careful. Again...I'm talking SC.
    Excellent point on #1, though if a neighbor wants to borrow something he/she knows I have I will typically lend it to them. I'd rather be the lender since I can choose when I decide to become an #ss about getting my stuff back.

    I think "mutual combat" is only for the situation at hand. In other words, if you put your hands on the neighbor or challenged him to a fight, he fights back and you shoot him, you engaged in mutual combat and therefore it is an illegal shoot. The same thing applies if he challenged you to a fight and you fight with him and then shoot him. If you walk away and later in the day he assaults you and you shoot, that is not (to my understanding) mutual combat.

    All of that said, the situation at hand makes any SD situation much trickier. I would be much more worried about my house getting vandalized and BS police calls then an SD shoot though.

  4. #34
    Distinguished Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    Make sure you carry a recorder if you are going to have any sort of conversation with your neighbor in the future. Obviously, he cannot be trusted. A video camera would be even better, but unless you talk on your property, that isn't going to happen (and hopefully you won't be doing that any time soon). He pulled a seriously dangerous and potentially life-threatening move by essentially having a swat team cover your house with loaded guns drawn. Get a restraining order. Put up a fence and a landscaping screen directly on your newly surveyed lot lines. Shut this guy out of your life.

  5. #35
    mkh
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdf3834 View Post
    1) You've learned a lesson Benjamin Franklin stated a long time ago: "Neither a lender nor borrower be." Borrowing stuff makes for sour relations.
    Actually, Shakespeare wrote that in Hamlet Act I Scene III.

    I have a habit of OC when I'm in my yard. Not really on purpose but rather too lazy to put on a cover shirt to go out to the car or get the paper etc. This has me reconsidering that policy even though my neighbors all know I have guns and I have good neighbors.

    Makes it tough to keep secret though when I take the AK or the AR to the range.

  6. #36
    Member Array jdf3834's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SC Tiger View Post
    I think "mutual combat" is only for the situation at hand. In other words, if you put your hands on the neighbor or challenged him to a fight, he fights back and you shoot him, you engaged in mutual combat and therefore it is an illegal shoot. The same thing applies if he challenged you to a fight and you fight with him and then shoot him. If you walk away and later in the day he assaults you and you shoot, that is not (to my understanding) mutual combat.
    That's incorrect. Here a link I found using Google.

    Justia :: Criminal Law 3471. Right to Self-Defense: Mutual Combat or Initial Aggressor

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwhich50 View Post
    Brandishing is a felony with manditory jail time in Florida. I have a CCP but have never carried due to this type of BS. For now it will just have to be me and my trusty Spydercos.
    Not to hijack this thread, but I'm just kind of stunned that you have your CCP yet are afraid to carry in one of the most gun friendly states in the country.

    I hope you realize that brandishing is to:
    1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
    2. To display ostentatiously

    To wave or flourish (a weapon) in a triumphant, threatening, or ostentatious way.


    If the wind blows your cover garment to the point that your gun is momentarily exposed, it is not brandishing.

    If you are reaching over your head to retrieve an item off an upper shelf in a grocery store, thus momentarily exposing your gun, is also not considered brandishing.

    Most innocent and momentarily exposures of a gun while in it's holster is not considered brandishing except maybe in the most draconian anti-gun jurisdictions.

    And even in staunch anti-gun areas, it usually requires drawing your gun (removing it from the holster) to be considered brandishing.

    I do hope you'll become more confident with your gun and more confident of Florida law enforcement.

    <End of Hijack>
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Not to hijack this thread, but I'm just kind of stunned that you have your CCP yet are afraid to carry in one of the most gun friendly states in the country.

    I hope you realize that brandishing is to:
    1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
    2. To display ostentatiously

    To wave or flourish (a weapon) in a triumphant, threatening, or ostentatious way.


    If the wind blows your cover garment to the point that your gun is momentarily exposed, it is not brandishing.

    If you are reaching over your head to retrieve an item off an upper shelf in a grocery store, thus momentarily exposing your gun, is also not considered brandishing.

    Most innocent and momentarily exposures of a gun while in it's holster is not considered brandishing except maybe in the most draconian anti-gun jurisdictions.

    And even in staunch anti-gun areas, it usually requires drawing your gun (removing it from the holster) to be considered brandishing.

    I do hope you'll become more confident with your gun and more confident of Florida law enforcement.

    <End of Hijack>
    Bark'n, while everything you wrote is correct, it can still lead to the same type of situation that the OP is discussing. We have to be careful about it here in liberal Seattle (and yeah, I'm mostly a liberal).

    It's about perception of the so-called brandishing and also can lead to he said-she said just like the OP is dealing with.

    (Senselessly) alarmed onlookers can still call the cops if they see your CCW. Cops come....they're going to get 2 stories...and people who feel stupid about not knowing CC laws or fear/hate guns are going to find a way to support their position...less than honestly.

    Sure it's likely you'd be cleared (but not necessarily, as I said, in a liberal area), but you'd still be paying fines and lawyers fees :-(

    OTOH, this doesnt stop me from CC'ing and I hope that that Mwhich50 reconsiders and exercises his right!
    Last edited by 9MMare; July 5th, 2011 at 03:50 PM.
    Fortune favors the bold.

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    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  9. #39
    mkh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Not to hijack this thread, but I'm just kind of stunned that you have your CCP yet are afraid to carry in one of the most gun friendly states in the country.

    I hope you realize that brandishing is to:
    1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
    2. To display ostentatiously

    To wave or flourish (a weapon) in a triumphant, threatening, or ostentatious way.


    If the wind blows your cover garment to the point that your gun is momentarily exposed, it is not brandishing.

    If you are reaching over your head to retrieve an item off an upper shelf in a grocery store, thus momentarily exposing your gun, is also not considered brandishing.

    Most innocent and momentarily exposures of a gun while in it's holster is not considered brandishing except maybe in the most draconian anti-gun jurisdictions.

    And even in staunch anti-gun areas, it usually requires drawing your gun (removing it from the holster) to be considered brandishing.

    I do hope you'll become more confident with your gun and more confident of Florida law enforcement.

    <End of Hijack>
    SR 345 which Gov. Rick Scott signed last month mad the brief exposure not a crime.

    When you wear a gun concealed or open carry all kinds of things can go wrong with people freaking. However the consequences of not wearing one can prove deadly. You can't let yourself be scared off by what someone might or might not do if they know you have a gun.

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Another good case for 'never tell'
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  11. #41
    Member Array jack76590's Avatar
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    Some threats are not illegal, such as, because of this situation I am considering moving and renting my house out under Section 8. I would not normally do this to a neighbor, but ..............

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    Personally, I would be talking to an attorney, and not posting anything online about this. Once it is on the interweb, it stays there. You may want to ask a mod to shut down this thread for you.

    Neighbors are kind of like in laws, even if you don't see eye to eye with them, it is best to remain cordial, because it is an interpersonal relationship that tends to last a while
    Unfortunately, he's right. Best to just suck it up and let it go. I know, I've dealt with some jerk neighbors for the past 3 or 4 years. It all started with them digging "drainage ditches" (1' deep x 1' wide and all the way across the road). Now it's escalated to the point that we can't do anything on that half of the property without being harassed, videotaped, or having the cops called. We had to go to the county attorney to get permission just to shoot on our own property, because we were threatened with a public nuisance ticket because it upset the neighbors.

    If I were you, I would just ignore anything they do. If they come on your property, go inside. If they call the cops, smile and cooperate. Basically you just have to turn the other cheek. Trust me, you don't want to get into a ******* match with a neighbor.

  13. #43
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    My advice to both parties is to simply grow up and act like adults.
    buckeye .45 and corncob like this.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Attorney, let him contact the police, the state police , and anyone he needs to in order to make sure your side of it is taken into account and there is no over-reaction. Talk the Atty about an personal protection order, but I would not go there unless he recommended it, and gave me good reasons .... as soon as you do that the guy may file one on you just to do it.

    Delete the information in your original post.

    I've had property line issues over several years as well. There is a new owner and I talked to them right off the bat, and that I wanted to put a privacy fence on the line, to remove doubts in the future, since he's going to lease the property. He was agreeable.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  15. #45
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    I've told my wife that our next house is going to be smack in the middle of about 50+ wooded acres surrounded with fence. No more neighborhoods for me.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

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