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Issue with the neighbor

9K views 75 replies 48 participants last post by  Eagleks 
#1 ·
This is a real situation that happened with the neighbor just a couple days ago. Im real curious how others would have handeled it, and how otheres would handle the "What-If's" that keep running through my mind.

Recently my neighbors and I have not been seeing eye to eye on things. I decided that we would no longer "associate" with them and just go our seperate ways as friends, and just remain cordial neighbors. All this stems to some survey lines that were painted on the curb between our houses. The neighbor kept making a big deal about these survey lines, pretty much accusing me of trying to "steal his property".

The male neighbor had been sending some rude text messages here and there about nit picky little things, this was the final straw for me. We had a few of their "things" like a couple tools, a basketball goal, etc, that I returned to their possession after the final text message. A few days later he came over while I was outside working on my truck and said "Lets talk". Thinking we could have a discussion man to man I agreed. Mind you, we'd never had any heated discussions before this, no arguements or anything, everything prior to this had been fine, to the point we'd actually considered them good friends.

Durring the discussion we were both outside, in my driveway. I normally carry, however, I was wearing gym shorts, and a tank top since it was 102* outside and we were both sweating bullets, so at this time I was un-armed. Closest weapon was secured inside, upstairs.

The conversation finally came down to him saying "Proove I sent you said rude text message", and in turn me saying "Proove I didn't" after a few rounds and rounds of that I finally said "_____ How old are you" (neighbors name ommited for obvious reasons) His response was "Old enough to kick your ass". I immediately turned around and went inside. Started explain to the wife what just happened. About 3 minutes later I get a loud pounding on the door. Expecting it to be Him coming back to eat some crow I opened the door to find a full tactical response from the police department. Three officers at the door, guns drawn, one officer i could see behind a car door with some variation of an M-16 pointed directly at me, and another officer in the nealing prone position behind a tree across the street, again, with some variation of an M-16 pointed at me. As soon as they saw I was completly unarmed and in a calm, cool, and collected attitude all weapons were holstered, and the assault riffles were stored, and those two officers drove of.

After speaking with the officers about the ordeal, I was informed that he (neighbor) had called the police and reported that I had threatened him with a gun. This is where the conversation with me and the police got rather interesting. The police asked how he knew I had a gun, if (as I was saying) I didn't have the gun on me. I pointed out that state law regarding concealed carry requires you to inform someone that you are carrying a concealed weapon if you enter their property, in which I'd done in the past, with his approval. They apparently couldn't put the logic together as to how did he know I had a weapon if I really didn't have it on me etc. etc.

Now, when I am in my house, or on my property (more specifically the back yard) I open carry. The conversation [with the police] somehow got to that topic, in which they told me "If you have a concealed carry permit, the weapon must be concealed at all times, no matter what" This is where I disagree, however, I did not argue the point with them.

The interaction with the police ended with them filing a police report, with a promise that they would be forwarding it to the State Police to review possible revocation of my Concealed Carry Permit.

Here are my thoughts:

The neighbor had a 50/50 chance on his call to the police being correct. At the time I did NOT have a weapon on me, however, as I stated previously, I normally carry, hence his 50/50 chance of being correct.

1. What if I was carrying? Although I took the high road, and went inside (which castle doctrine states I don't have to)
2. The mere fact that he knows I own a weapon and have a CHL, opens him up to all sorts of avenues for harrassment, such as if I walk outside he could merely call the police and say I'm brandishing a weapon.... IF this were the case, at some point the police are going to say "enough is enough, maybe this guy really is brandishing a firemarm"
3. I can't find it anywhere that says I must conceal, or cannot open carry on my own property. (I may have been in the wrong with open carrying my backyard, and will correct if said law isn't found)
4. Would you have turned and walked away?
5. I have a 10 y/o daughter in the house, what would have happened had she seen the whole police force in our front yard, that would be truely devastating to her... If you were in the same shoes as I, what would you do here?
6. Would you have done, or do anything different?
7. I am going to get a copy of the police report tomorrow to see what was *actually* written down.

Thankfully the police gave a verbal no contact order to both parties (him and I, including our families). I have no plans to associate with them in any way shape or form, as this situation completey shows what they are capable and willing to do, in which I want my family to have no part of.

In the end, the police left without incident, but the whole thing has me a bit rattled.

Looking for your input.

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#2 ·
Personally, I would be talking to an attorney, and not posting anything online about this. Once it is on the interweb, it stays there. You may want to ask a mod to shut down this thread for you.

Neighbors are kind of like in laws, even if you don't see eye to eye with them, it is best to remain cordial, because it is an interpersonal relationship that tends to last a while
 
#42 ·
Unfortunately, he's right. Best to just suck it up and let it go. I know, I've dealt with some jerk neighbors for the past 3 or 4 years. It all started with them digging "drainage ditches" (1' deep x 1' wide and all the way across the road). Now it's escalated to the point that we can't do anything on that half of the property without being harassed, videotaped, or having the cops called. We had to go to the county attorney to get permission just to shoot on our own property, because we were threatened with a public nuisance ticket because it upset the neighbors.

If I were you, I would just ignore anything they do. If they come on your property, go inside. If they call the cops, smile and cooperate. Basically you just have to turn the other cheek. Trust me, you don't want to get into a ******* match with a neighbor.
 
#3 ·
You have the right to open carry... And these are some of the problems open carry brings to the table. You can be as indignant as you want, you're still going to be scrutinized by those who don't like guns. And now, you're kind of under a microscope.

Missouri is an open carry state, and I rarely see people open carrying, except around hunting season. When I say rarely, I'm saying maybe twice in the last two or three years... Maybe. (again, except during deer season).

I don't know what you can do except try and let things blow over with your neighbor. I would keep my distance, and it would seem you now have what I would consider a hostile neighbor.

I have carried concealed ever since I got my permit and none of my neighbors know it. I carry 100% of the time, and again, no one knows it. I've never had the cops called on me, or a mini-swat team show up at my house.

You now know first hand how people with an agenda can make your life miserable. One thing is certain as I see it. You'll always going to be operating from a position of disadvantage when it comes to future dealings with your neighbor.

I agree that going over your options with an attorney likely won't hurt anything. I doubt your neighbor will find you here as long as your user name bears no resemblance to who you are. You may want to delete what state you live on your profile... that's totally not necessary to have here.

I'd much rather have the kind of disagreement you have with a relative of mine than I would my next door neighbor. I can control when and where I choose to be in the company of a relative I don't see eye to eye with. But a next door neighbor can deal you a lot of grief, my friend. You are in constant close proximity to them all the time, and will likely see him every day. Not good, as far as I'm concerned.
 
#12 ·
I have carried concealed ever since I got my permit and none of my neighbors know it. I carry 100% of the time, and again, no one knows it.
I'm the same way. The only one that knows is my wife and a buddy of mine that I work with that also carries.

I live in some tightly compacted suburbs so it impossible not to run into your neighbor from time to time. Were friendly with our neighbors but not close enough to call them 'our friends', in other words, we don't really hang out or eat together or anything like that.

I will never tell my neighbors that I carry, I will never open carry on my property in case some 'anti's' happen to be passing through. We have a busy sidewalk that runs on one side of our house, so you never know who may be walking by and freak out that the guy mowing his lawn has a gun on his hip.

If I happened to come across a neighbor that is 'into guns', then maybe I wouldn't have a problem talking about our guns together. But you just gotta feel people out sometimes, ya know? Seems you have a blackmailing jerk for a neighbor and now that it's too late and he knows you have a gun, you can bet your @ss any other altercation that may arise between the two of you or your families, the gun WILL be brought up!

I reccomend keeping to yourself and say as little as possible to one another.

Good Luck!
 
#5 ·
Talk to an attorney and see about a restraining order against him...before he does it to you. Not sure about AR, but if a restraining order is issued against a gun owner, firearms must be removed and your permit suspended. Also, through your attorney, talk to the permit issuing authority and tell him/her what is going on and explain your purposes for carrying and it's not for brandishing or intimidation. Get to the permit-issuing authority soon, before or soon after the report hits his desk. That way you're not just a name on a piece of paper.
 
#6 ·
Here's some advice for you, since you're asking:

1. It is paramount to avoid conflict with neighbors. No matter how justified your plaint, forgive much, say little. A hostile neighbor can make your life very unhappy.

2. Find a way to patch this fiasco up, if you can.

If your neighbor likes bourbon or such, buy a nice bottle, bring it over, have a few drinks and shake on things. This is not weakness, it is about the permanent cessation of conflict.

Also, there's another lesson in all this about being discreet with your firearms. That's a more complicated matter and space here does not permit an extended exegesis, but it's something to think about in depth.
 
#7 ·
Good luck to you. Please get an attorney and I'm sorry for the expense and stress.
 
#8 ·
This is exactly why I do not open carry. This guy has potentially compromised your ability to carry at all. Lawyer up, get this thread deleted & do not talk to ANYONE but your lawyer about this.

The best advice I got from my CC instructor was to SHUT UP if I am ever suspect in a crime. Speak with a lawyer & only a lawyer. A court can compel your spouse to testify in court but they can not make your lawyer testify. If you are Catholic you may speak with your Priest in confessional, but no other ground is considered off limits to a court.
 
#9 ·
I had a similar situation with one of my neighbors, but much worse. They called the PD on me more than a dozen times telling the Dispatcher that I had pulled my gun on them. In talking with a friend of mine who is a LEO, he informed me (in MI) that if the person thats calling in the offense doesnt sign a complaint on the subject that it is just lip service from the LEOs. Im not sure if its law where you are, but here if they sign a false Report they can get in a lot of trouble. Meaning you pull your gun on someone without it being a SD, thats a felony. If they file A false report on you saying that you pulled your gun and you didnt they will be charged with a felony.

We I made it clear to the police that the lip service will stop, and that my video camera was on and the gun was never in play they didnt like that. I also informed them that she needed to sign the report. They wouldnt allow her to do so they did make sure to tell her about the false reporting.After all the BS it finally stopped when she realized that the course she was on wasnt going to work for her. Anyways, this is long enough....Seek out an attorney and ask some questions, as I see it you should be fine. Im not a lawyer, but did stay at a holiday inn last night. :smile:
 
#10 ·
Couple questions:

1) Who painted these lines and why?

2) Did you do the smart thing and keep those harassing/threatening texts?

Other than that, only advice I can give is to contact the ASP to get their take on things, your local Prosecuting/District Attorney about harassment and filing false charges and hire a lawyer or at least seriously consider it. I'd also not OC on your property any time soon. Remember, not all LEO know the law they're supposed to be enforcing anywhere nearly as well as they should.
 
#11 ·
All the above suggestions make sense.

Obviously anyone can make any preposterous accusation about anything at any time.

I'm curious about the origins of the boundary dispute and who hired the surveyor and why, as this might tend to indicate a prior dispute which is now out of hand.

I would suggest that if the marks were placed by a licensed surveyor (and not by you), that's pretty much that, and his claim that you are trying to steal his land might be as wacky as his assertion that you confronted him with a gun.

Given what appear to be two false accusations on his part against you, take the police advice seriously and steer clear.

And don't answer my questions here as this thread needs to disappear and you need to consult an attorney---if only on the boundary dispute.
 
#15 ·
I would video tape my next outdoor excursions...if the neighbors came over I would invite him to leave and let him run his mouth all he wanted.
Had the past incident been on tape, along with his "I'll kick your arse.", he'd be back tracking with the police, not you!OMO

Outside of the video tape, I'd contact an attorney and ignore my neighbor...a taped conversation (if legal in your state) could be your friend.
 
#16 ·
Why were they not charging your neighbor with a false police report? You were not carrying. Why are they forwarding to anyone to possibly revoke your permit??? LAWYER UP, and have no further conversations with the neighbor or the police without your lawyer present or consulted. Over time, nothing good is going to come out of having bad blood with a neighbor. Depending on the position you're in, consider relocating if it is feasible. If not, consider a 6 foot privacy fence and a guard dog. Much less expensive in the long run than ongoing legal fees.
 
#19 ·
Thank you everyone for your passionate responses. I appreciate everyones input.

First thing in tomorrow morning I'm headed to the PD to get a copy of the report, followed by a call to an attorney. Unfortunately finances hamper much attorney actions, however most do have the free consultation.

I am also researching the option to FOIA request a copy of the actual 911 call. I believe that will help determine further actions. I am also not sure of how to proceed with an actual court ordered no contact order, butasm researching as much as possible.

As for the question of the pink lines.... I have no idea who painted them.... For all I know it could have been them creating a point to argue. I called the "One Call" number to inquire on any surveying.... They had no records of any locating request in ouwr neighborhood. Also contacted the permits and planning section of the city to no avail.

I am also looking into 8' privacy fence boards. We currently have a 6' fence in place, but due to the terrain that really provides us no privacy. Thankfully the city permits for fences up to 8' tall.

As for making amends, buying the liquer, sharing some drinks, etc... I do not foresee that as an option. For many reasons at that. They proved their true colors, and for our own safety I believe it is in our best interest to not associatewith them at all.

Open carrying on my own property will also cease for my own best interest.

One post said they'd rather have a disagreement with their family than their neighbors as you can pick and choose when you see your family, you can't do that with your neighbors.... I couldn't agree more!!!!

Again, Thank you!

Btw: recommended edits have been completed.

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#24 ·
If you know you are going to talk with your neighbor again for any reason, I would record it (assuming that is legal in your state) most smart-phones these days can do voice-recording. Just turn it on before the encounter. It might not hurt to get some security cameras on your house. If this had happened to me, I would have been able to show the police the video recording of our encounter and they would have seen no gun.

Be careful what you tell the police. I'm not one of those people who think all police are out to get you, quite the opposite. However, if the police do believe you are guilty they can find ways to use what you say to them against you. That is the whole point of the Miranda thing. There is no such thing as an "off the record" conversation with any policeman. Even if they flat out tell you it is off the record, it is still on the record. So just be careful.
 
#29 ·
I'll add this. If you even conceal carry on your property, make sure there is no printing, partial openness of the weapon or holster, and absolutely no sign of a gun on you. He could see you printing and call the cops again. They show up and you having a weapon on you and it's not gonna be good for you.

Because of this a-hole your freedoms at home are now compromised.

Also talk to your local police chief and tell him how ridiculous their response was. There was absolutely no need for a frigging SWAT response to this. One or two officers with one backup car would have sufficed. Of course, this depends on what the neighbor told them.
 
#30 ·
1. You need to talk with a lwayer.
2. As far as I know, a CC permit "allows" one to carry concealed. It no way implies the holder "must" carry concealed when open carry is permitted, such as on your own property/business.
3. If the neighbor ever enters your property again without your express permission, have him trespassed.
 
#32 ·
Yeah, I know in my state you are allowed to open-carry on your own property. However, as we've discussed in other threads, the police don't always know they law. They are not even required to know the law. They certainly don't like to be lectured about it. I've never walked around in my front or back yard openly-carrying a gun. Although I do shoot "replica" BB guns in my back yard that are nearly indistinguishable from the real thing. Nobody has called the cops on me for that, and I know one neighbor has seen me shooting them. So I guess they realize since there is no "boom" with each shot, that they must be BB guns. But if one day I decided to open-carry a gun on my hip while mowing my front lawn where the whole street can see, I wouldn't be at all surprised to have the police show up. And I honestly would not expect them to have researched the laws on the matter before hand.
 
#31 ·
See Chevy SS's post on this page: mini camera. Size of a pack of gum and only $60.00. You need it now! Do not talk to him. He obviously has no moral compass. If what you said is true, he tried to get you thrown in jail. Brandishing is a felony with manditory jail time in Florida. I have a CCP but have never carried due to this type of BS. For now it will just have to be me and my trusty Spydercos.
 
#37 ·
Brandishing is a felony with manditory jail time in Florida. I have a CCP but have never carried due to this type of BS. For now it will just have to be me and my trusty Spydercos.
Not to hijack this thread, but I'm just kind of stunned that you have your CCP yet are afraid to carry in one of the most gun friendly states in the country.

I hope you realize that brandishing is to:
1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
2. To display ostentatiously

To wave or flourish (a weapon) in a triumphant, threatening, or ostentatious way.


If the wind blows your cover garment to the point that your gun is momentarily exposed, it is not brandishing.

If you are reaching over your head to retrieve an item off an upper shelf in a grocery store, thus momentarily exposing your gun, is also not considered brandishing.

Most innocent and momentarily exposures of a gun while in it's holster is not considered brandishing except maybe in the most draconian anti-gun jurisdictions.

And even in staunch anti-gun areas, it usually requires drawing your gun (removing it from the holster) to be considered brandishing.

I do hope you'll become more confident with your gun and more confident of Florida law enforcement.

<End of Hijack>
 
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