The Parking Garage - Page 3

The Parking Garage

This is a discussion on The Parking Garage within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; posted by Limatunes: What is my gut telling me ? (Bold font added) If my gut is telling me something isn't right, what am I ...

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  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    posted by Limatunes:

    What is my gut telling me? (Bold font added) If my gut is telling me something isn't right, what am I hurting to be extra cautious and hang back and see what happens? At very least, making a retreat to a vehicle will either entice them to act if they do have negative motives and reveal their real intentions or they will walk by and you will have confirmed that they are not a threat and continue on your merry way.. this time able to possibly ride the elevator by yourself. WIN!!
    +100 Having been the victim of NOT listening to my own gut--yes--pay attention!!
    640girl likes this.
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

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  2. #32
    TVJ
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    Great scenario. Thx for posting.


    Texas use of force/lethal force law applies to me. Title 2 Chapter 9

    Note the closest person is significantly less than a car length from me and advancing based on the diagram.

    Two pop up at same time out of nowhere.

    One perp interviews me with multiple irrelevant questions and advances on me. Textbook

    Skateboard can act easily as a club.


    I articulate that two people popped out of nowhere in the parking garage as I walked towards elevator for appmnt minding my own business with every right to be where I was. Perps appeared to be hiding. One advanced on me aggressively out of nowhere peppering me with irrelevant interview-type questions. I am scared. I move away from him backwards immediately (Get off the X) since he was less than a car length away and carrying a skateboard (see diagram). I YELL in command voice "BACK OFF" at the same time I grab the handle of my holstered Glock appendix IWB right side. I keep moving back, watch perps hands. My sidearm stays holstered for the moment. Look at others if possible. Mr 20 Questions then did this.........

    The OP scenario ends here......

    I say all the above to the police that arrive after I call 911 operator if they moved away from me and I have safe time/space to make the call.

    Tactically, I stay at least even with potential perp with my Glock grip and let him know in certain terms I am armed and a hard target.

    I can articulate that my actions were reasonable in the moment for my safety.

    I am immediately ready to point shoot Mr 20 Questions into the ground while moving further off the X.

    I stay mobile and avoid getting in the caddy. I have no idea what weapons he/they have.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
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  3. #33
    Member Array gruntingfrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I wouldn't be caught driving a Cadillac Escalade in the first place so this scenerio has no significant reality for me.
    OK, substitute a high-end vehicle of your choosing and just play along.

    Quote Originally Posted by paul34 View Post
    I would've asked for a different loaner car. Escalades draw too much attention.
    Let's just say they didn't have any other models available (although, I agree with you).
    Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.
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  4. #34
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    I'm going to be feeling the spidey senses when the two come out at the same time like that. Then there's the conversation. I'm not much of a conversationalist. I don't particularly like talking to my barber when getting a haircut. I find it awkward and somewhat uncomfortable when people I don't know randomly start talking to me. I'm going to answer with "Eh, it's a rental, I don't like it." If he keeps walking towards me I'll put up a hand about waist-high and ask "Something I can help you with?" in a flat voice. The answer to that determines my response.
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  5. #35
    Member Array pangloss9's Avatar
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    I'd say the Escalade is a loaner, I'm late for my meeting that has already started, can't wait on the elevator, and take the stairs.

  6. #36
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    Those senses are there for a reason....def would retreat back to my vehicle after acknowledging I forgot something thus keeping hand at edc with eyecontact outward and thumb on panic button (always have key fob in hand), oops! ;) I spend no time over analyzing the situation as I see it, seconds matter, better safe than sorry later and really don't want to have to get to the situation to draw.
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  7. #37
    RKM
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    I'd answer their questions honestly and proceed with caution. I don't want to live my life in fear of random people. If they had certain body language that tipped me off, I'd possibly just continue and use the stairs instead of getting in the elevator with them (assuming they're together, setting me up).

  8. #38
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    Freak them out by acting crazier than they are. Walking quickly talking crazy to yourself they will leave you alone usually.

    I'd actually just walk to the elevator and get on with my back to the corner.

  9. #39
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    The good news is the Caddy isn't mine. If I get a little blood on the wheels or a few dents or bullet holes in the body, it's insured through someone else.

    In all seriousness, claude clay has a pretty sound response. Works for me.

    One thing changing directions and heading back to your vehicle does is it will often make them reveal their intentions. Another thing, it may let them know you are on to them thus causing them to continue on the prowl and look for another target.

    Either way, I'd leave in my car, and call my appointment and let them know I had an altercation in the underground parking and I'd be there as soon as possible. Then I'd look for a different place to park and a different entrance to the building.
    that is right... If they continue talking to you or change their directions towards you after you have done so, then you know they are out to get something. If they continue to move towards the elevator or original direction you were headed then let them go on ahead for awhile before trying to get to your meeting.
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    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    i suddenly remember i forgot my 'x' in my car. i say in a clear voice--"Hay guys, you take the elevator, I forgot my briefcase in the caddy and i half turn so i can keep an eye on them and side, crab-like, walk back to my caddy. which way i half turn depends on which side my EDC is on.

    what happens next is that they may disperse cause the know i can recognize them and likely they want a easy score rather than a fight.
    if they advance on me, i can not continue to safely retreat so i must be aware of their hands ( was from the start) and it may be time to let them 'see' my EDC. often that sight transcends further conversation. if it fails to cross over the language barrier; than further visual is needed. possibly including noise and an act of self-defense of the violent kind.
    Yup. Fall back to a safer position where there is only one avenue of approach. Back to the wall also puts you in a better legal position if there's no improved castle doctrine on the books. Also agree with the "casual flash" to show the EDC. Hope it's not a mouse-gun or worse mini-mouse (NAA five shot mini revolver). Most punks and serious perps can recognize the serious gun handler by the way they carry themselves. Kinda like the way the immortals in the series HIGHLANDER could recognize each other. They kinda sorta just KNOW and they usually want no part of same. My time as a parole officer AND my more recent career teaching in inner city high schools for the last 16 years seems to verify this. They know who they can mess with and who will do them damage. The sole exception would be the gang. They won't back off, ever and they won't run. If you think this is a gang, fall back and draw. Be ready to engage. In fact, start the targeting process. If it really is a gang, especially a serious known quantity like MS13 or Zetas, it's gonna get ugly real fast.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  11. #41
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    My time as a parole officer AND my more recent career teaching in inner city high schools for the last 16 years seems to verify this. .
    ^5 to you sir! Most esp your years as a teacher.
    Fortune favors the bold.

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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    ^5 to you sir! Most esp your years as a teacher.
    16 years out of a total 22 years has been a lot. I'm finally transferring OUT of the 'Hood. Last year my life was threatened three times. The second time it happened, they caught the kid the very next day on campus with a gun. Of course, I'm denied the right to carry mine. One of the punks said he was going to be PAID to kill me for the crime of keeping order and quiet in my classroom. I instantly told him what I tell them all: "You want a piece of me? Get in line, come "heavy" and don't miss... because I won't." But that was it for me. I'm getting too old to put up with with the unrelenting stress. I'm not going to be one of the many teachers I have known to die of a heart attack in harness. I'm going to live to enjoy my approaching retirement.
    Last edited by ExSoldier; July 19th, 2011 at 09:57 AM. Reason: format, spelling and add a detail.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  13. #43
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    This type of scenario is one reason I try to always be early to appointments.
    One: a little extra time allows me to do some searching for an optimal space.

    TWO: If I ran across this situation, I have a few minutes to sit in the SAFETY my car and observe. I can easily wait and see if the first guy gets on the elevator. I can also take some time and get a closer look at the area. (This tactic can SAVE your LIFE!)

    Three: After, I do the above things I can take my time getting out of my vehicle and entering the buliding; so I can maintain the best possible SA.

    BGs are very observant and choose their prey carefully. If you take your time and show yourself to be very observant and "aware" of you surroundings, they're likely to choose another victim.

    In the "off" chance I do get caught in a similer situation, I would STOP in my tracks the SECOND I saw other potential BGs make an appearence. I would most likely excuse myself as stated and try to return to my car. (All the while keeping a close eye on my surroundings.)

    If things seemed like they were going down hill I would hit the "Panic" button and look for some way to limit there atttack. This could mean keeping a car or two between me and them; or it may mean getting my back to the wall so I can mount a counter.

    This scenario does bring up a few of other considerations-
    1. If you cannot carry inside the building, OC or some other less-than-lethal protection needs to be considered to help you get to safety.

    2. What is the best stategy/position to be in while you are on the elevator with potential BGs?

    And finally-

    3. If you find yourself "already" on the elevator and multiple assailents appear, what do you do?

    -
    Bark'n likes this.

  14. #44
    Member Array Wolfrage's Avatar
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    "No, my captain sent me here on my off duty time to serve an arrest warrant and I don't even get overtime. Couldn't bother sending a uniform but _I_ gotta go?"

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    This type of scenario is one reason I try to always be early to appointments.
    One: a little extra time allows me to do some searching for an optimal space.

    TWO: If I ran across this situation, I have a few minutes to sit in the SAFETY my car and observe. I can easily wait and see if the first guy gets on the elevator. I can also take some time and get a closer look at the area. (This tactic can SAVE your LIFE!)

    Three: After, I do the above things I can take my time getting out of my vehicle and entering the buliding; so I can maintain the best possible SA.

    BGs are very observant and choose their prey carefully. If you take your time and show yourself to be very observant and "aware" of you surroundings, they're likely to choose another victim.

    In the "off" chance I do get caught in a similer situation, I would STOP in my tracks the SECOND I saw other potential BGs make an appearence. I would most likely excuse myself as stated and try to return to my car. (All the while keeping a close eye on my surroundings.)

    If things seemed like they were going down hill I would hit the "Panic" button and look for some way to limit there atttack. This could mean keeping a car or two between me and them; or it may mean getting my back to the wall so I can mount a counter.

    This scenario does bring up a few of other considerations-
    1. If you cannot carry inside the building, OC or some other less-than-lethal protection needs to be considered to help you get to safety.

    2. What is the best stategy/position to be in while you are on the elevator with potential BGs?

    And finally-

    3. If you find yourself "already" on the elevator and multiple assailents appear, what do you do?

    -
    I take issue with only one part of this response: "BGs are very observant and choose their prey carefully." That might be true for guys who count as "pros" but the vast majority of street crime is driven by drugs and those punks strike at targets of opportunity. True, they have pretty good survival instincts and will usually leave prey alone that seems to be prepared, but you really can't count on that. Especially if they really need to get high. I had a ton of punks this past year in my classes (this year I taught the most violent grade: 9th --ages 15 or so) who would face down a guy with a gun in a moment because they simply don't care if they live die or get arrested. So many of the people they've known have been killed that it has no impact on them. They're mostly just waiting for their time. And having fun in the interlude. So what do you do if you've got several kids ages 14 and 15 who don't appear to be armed with firearms or anything? If they approach you and you DRAW they may not run and may even challenge you: "GO AHEAD, SHOOT!" And they'll keep coming. Nobody is going to pull a trigger in this case without first carefully thinking about the ramifications of killing a young kid who may not be armed. They know that and they're hoping to close the distance enough to still have an excellent chance to survive when they rush you. So what do you do?

    As far as your questions on proximity: I'd stay with my back to a corner and I'd be CALM and serious. Don't be challenging but don't be a sheep either. That should put them off balance enough to exit the elevator unless it's either abnormally slow or a very long ride or both. I practice close combat quite a bit, firing from the position of retention and I try to use those skills in conjunction with my Aikido. It helps that my sensei is a gun guy, too. We work those scenarios quite a bit in the dojo. One of the first things I learned in that art is that it is always very good to have the bad guys close to you. So many more options.
    Bark'n likes this.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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