Does Carrying 'Too Much Stuff' Make You More Guilty? - Page 3

Does Carrying 'Too Much Stuff' Make You More Guilty?

This is a discussion on Does Carrying 'Too Much Stuff' Make You More Guilty? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by RockBottom A good defense attorney probably wouldn't, but here is a more likely scenario. You are involved in what the law regards ...

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Thread: Does Carrying 'Too Much Stuff' Make You More Guilty?

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    A good defense attorney probably wouldn't, but here is a more likely scenario. You are involved in what the law regards as a "clean shoot". The district attorney doesn't press charges against you. The person you shot or their family files a $2,000,000.00 civil suit against you. Their attorney claims that because you carried two guns, six magazines, a tactical knife, a bug out bag, and a completely stocked trauma kit; you were pretty much "just itchin' for a fight" and when one presented itself, instead of retreating, you welcomed it with open arms. Naturally they want a jury trial and try their best to load the jury with people who are scared to death of guns. Now, what do you?
    Live in a state where the castle doctrine protects me from frivolous law suits such as these


  2. #32
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdknox View Post
    I'm ok with the duty to retreat. I really don't want to shoot anyone and if I can away I'm certainly going to. Just because states have the Castle doctrine, to me doesn't make it right to not try and retreat first. Of course, if I have no way out, then I'm going to do what I have to do.
    I am not. I am ok with the duty to stand my ground. If you attack me, you are in the wrong. Why should I have to run? Why should I have to give you the chance you did not give me? For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and when attacked, running away is not one of them. To quote a great man: The will to survive is not as important as the will to prevail... the answer to criminal aggression is retaliation.
    SpencerB and 21bubba like this.

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    I carry my 23 and a spare mag, a flashlight a folder and my keys. In summer I carry my 340 and the 23 is locked up in my ride. I do have a GHB in the ride but it has nothing tactical in it. if I cant fight my way out of a situation with 27 rounds of 40 caliber and my brain I am in real trouble anyways. If it is just 5 shots in my 340 then if I dont hit my target then the muzzle blast and concussion from the .357s in that little hand shaker will scare them off.

    Anything much more than that is uncomfortable. Everything I carry is completely stealth and not visible until I get it out. I like being "grey".
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  4. #34
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Live in a state where the castle doctrine protects me from frivolous law suits such as these
    Most of the time, situations where a civil suit against you arise occur when you are outside your "castle"
    .

  5. #35
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    Most of the time, situations where a civil suit against you arise occur when you are outside your "castle"
    .
    Arizona Revised Statute 13-413. No civil liability for justified conduct

  6. #36
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Arizona Revised Statute 13-413. No civil liability for justified conduct
    13-420. Attorney fees; costs

    The court shall award reasonable attorney fees, costs, compensation for lost income and all expenses incurred by a defendant in the defense of any civil action based on conduct otherwise justified pursuant to this chapter if the defendant prevails in the civil action.


    In other words, you can still be sued. If you prevail in court, you will be reimbursed. To add some more to this, the burden of proof that the shooting was justified pursuant to the chapter lies with you, not with the court. As we have seen recently in the Casey Anthony case, you can't predict how a jury will decide a case.

    Everybody has to make their own decisions as to what to carry. Carry as you wish. But the reason that lawyers get $200 an hour is because the law can be a murky thing.
    Last edited by RockBottom; July 8th, 2011 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Clarification

  7. #37
    Member Array Cdknox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    I am not. I am ok with the duty to stand my ground. If you attack me, you are in the wrong. Why should I have to run? Why should I have to give you the chance you did not give me? For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and when attacked, running away is not one of them. To quote a great man: The will to survive is not as important as the will to prevail... the answer to criminal aggression is retaliation.
    Like I said, if I can't get away, then so be it, I'll do what is necessary. But if I can outrun or get away without firing a shot, to me I've still won. Even if I had Castle Doctrine and could fire even with an escape, I'm still going to try and escape. That's just me. I don't want to take a life unless it's absolutely necessary. Your response sounds to me like any attack is warranted with firing your gun. At least that is how I am reading it.

  8. #38
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdknox View Post
    Like I said, if I can't get away, then so be it, I'll do what is necessary. But if I can outrun or get away without firing a shot, to me I've still won. Even if I had Castle Doctrine and could fire even with an escape, I'm still going to try and escape. That's just me. I don't want to take a life unless it's absolutely necessary. Your response sounds to me like any attack is warranted with firing your gun. At least that is how I am reading it.
    I am not unless resistance is futile. What it should sound to you is that I have that right as a free American Citizen, especially in Arizona. I wasn't born and raised to run, nor was I trained to run. You can if you want to.

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  9. #39
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    When the cops show up for your involvement in a Wally World incident, I wouldn't be wearing shooting glasses and electronic muffs (although you would be able to hear the cops questions clearly).OMO
    RockBottom and jwhite75 like this.
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  10. #40
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    When the cops show up for your involvement in a Wally World incident, I wouldn't be wearing shooting glasses and electronic muffs (although you would be able to hear the cops questions clearly).OMO
    Ain't that the truth?

  11. #41
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    First of all, I don't believe carrying a BUG is excessive. Also I don't believe at least one reload for each gun is excessive. As a matter of fact, it is prudent to do so. For every idiot a prosecutor puts up as an "expert witness", saying two guns is too many, I can line up five heavily credentialed, well respected lethal force instructors who can say a BUG for a civilian is not excessive.

    As far as carrying OC spray, I also believe it is prudent to carry a less than lethal method of dealing with less than lethal issues. The one knife I carry is a utility folding knife. I also carry a bright Fenix LD20 flashlight.

    As far as an ambulance chasing attorney gnawing at why I didn't use my OC spray against a knife wielding or gun toting assailant... Well, I think that's pretty self evident. It wouldn't be prudent to attempt to use a tool designed for unarmed aggressors against a lethal force threat, now would it?

    Do I believe a person can carry too much which can reflect negatively in a criminal or civil proceeding? Probably. But what is that line? All the documented professional training I've ever attended has recommended a back-up gun and always a spare reload for each weapon you carry. A flashlight and less lethal option has always been stressed as well. Of course, these are choices left to the individual and are things to consider based on what you believe best suits your situation.

    I know plenty of police officers who pretty much view their job as more of a social worker than anything else. Most of those same police officers don't particularly like guns, and know very little about them, including their own. I know very few who even carry a gun off duty let alone a BUG while on duty. I'm not too concerned about the attitudes of responding officers. They are either going to do a thorough and impartial investigation or they aren't. I'm not saying too much to them anyway without the presence of my attorney.
    -Bark'n
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  12. #42
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    First of all, I don't believe carrying a BUG is excessive. Also I don't believe at least one reload for each gun is excessive. As a matter of fact, it is prudent to do so. For every idiot a prosecutor puts up as an "expert witness", saying two guns is too many, I can line up five heavily credentialed, well respected lethal force instructors who can say a BUG for a civilian is not excessive.

    As far as carrying OC spray, I also believe it is prudent to carry a less than lethal method of dealing with less than lethal issues. The one knife I carry is a utility folding knife. I also carry a bright Fenix LD20 flashlight.

    As far as an ambulance chasing attorney gnawing at why I didn't use my OC spray against a knife wielding or gun toting assailant... Well, I think that's pretty self evident. It wouldn't be prudent to attempt to use a tool designed for unarmed aggressors against a lethal force threat, now would it?

    Do I believe a person can carry too much which can reflect negatively in a criminal or civil proceeding? Probably. But what is that line? All the documented professional training I've ever attended has recommended a back-up gun and always a spare reload for each weapon you carry. A flashlight and less lethal option has always been stressed as well. Of course, these are choices left to the individual and are things to consider based on what you believe best suits your situation.

    I know plenty of police officers who pretty much view their job as more of a social worker than anything else. Most of those same police officers don't particularly like guns, and know very little about them, including their own. I know very few who even carry a gun off duty let alone a BUG while on duty. I'm not too concerned about the attitudes of responding officers. They are either going to do a thorough and impartial investigation or they aren't. I'm not saying too much to them anyway without the presence of my attorney.
    In your last paragraph, you brought up an important point. What would be considered reasonable for a police officer to carry may be totally different (in the minds of a jury) from what an ordinary citizen might be expected to carry. As another example, take a combat soldier off the streets of Kandahar and place him in downtown Des Moines. See if anyone thinks that he might be overdressed.

  13. #43
    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    I think that carrying 2 guns, 2 knives and 4 mags is excessive, paranoid and simply stupid.

    I carry a gun, a spare mag, a knife, wallet, keys, small flashlight and iPhone and I still feel like I'm pushing it. More than that and I would feel like Robocop on steroids. If I were to engage in a gun fight that required more than 24 shots of JHP .40 S&W to get home alive, then I must've done something seriously wrong or I just stumbled upon a battle zone.

    It's funny how some people worry excessively about their gear and weapons choice, but they forget to train with their firearms, exercise to be fit, eat well and be healthy. The chances of dying at a major gunfight are slim, but the chances of dying of a heart attack due to overweight or lung cancer from smoking tobacco are far higher. Yet, people stress about the fact that they can't get a good enough gun belt to hold two 1911's and 4 mags to go to Walmart for milk.
    azchevy, gruntingfrog and 9MMare like this.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]

  14. #44
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alachner View Post

    It's funny how some people worry excessively about their gear and weapons choice, but they forget to train with their firearms, exercise to be fit, eat well and be healthy. The chances of dying at a major gunfight are slim, but the chances of dying of a heart attack due to overweight or lung cancer from smoking tobacco are far higher. Yet, people stress about the fact that they can't get a good enough gun belt to hold two 1911's and 4 mags to go to Walmart for milk.
    That about sums it up.

  15. #45
    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    That about sums it up.
    Thanks for the like! BTW, your avatar has to got to be one of the coolest ones I have ever seen in my life. A-W-E-S-O-M-E!!!!
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]

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