Does Carrying 'Too Much Stuff' Make You More Guilty?

This is a discussion on Does Carrying 'Too Much Stuff' Make You More Guilty? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well here's a scenario. You're out and about and confronted by a person wearing a hoodie with his hand stuck in the right pocket (as ...

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Thread: Does Carrying 'Too Much Stuff' Make You More Guilty?

  1. #61
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Well here's a scenario. You're out and about and confronted by a person wearing a hoodie with his hand stuck in the right pocket (as though he had a weapon). He demands your money. You reach toward your back pocket where most people would carry their wallet and instead produce a Bond Arms derringer. Upon seeing the weapon, the adversary turns just as you fire. Your bullet catches his spinal cord and leaves him alive, paralyzed from the neck down. Naturally, it turns out that he was unarmed.

    He shows up in court in a wheel chair with various attendants ministering to him.

    And then there's you. You had a weapon, plus a backup, plus several magazines..plus documented training...and belonged to several firearms websites where you had stated repeatedly what you would do if given the oppportunity. You were a loaded gun just waiting for the chance to show your stuff, and this poor guy in the wheelchair (unarmed) became your once in a lifetime chance to show what a hotshot you are. You gunned him down with his back turned and show no remorse whatsoever.

    Sadly, that's the way lawyers play. You're the ball they bat back and forth.

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  3. #62
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJD1968 View Post
    I totally agree with everything that you said!
    Sorry, I was posting while you were replying. I'll put down my damn hammer.

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    A gung ho DA that decides to prosecute will take every element available to try make you look bad, whether there is any merit or not. All he has to do is persuade 12 people that were not smart enough to get out of jury duty that you had some element of blame in the situation and you're toast. Anything from 2 guns, an extra magazine, or a gun that holds 19 rounds. I typically carry a snub with my semi-auto. That may make some people have some doubt about your intentions even though tactically it is with good reason. How about 2 five shot snubs? Even better practical and tactical reason to carry 2, yet to the average person knowing squat about defensive carry that may seem way overboard. You just never know how something is going to be presented or perceived.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  5. #64
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Lets take it one step further. Lots of people say that carrying a less lethal option should be mandatory with the gun.
    I've never heard that that is a common belief (the mandatory part). Interesting. Thanks.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  6. #65
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    You have to break it down even further than the state level. Statistics show that you are far more likely to get into a shooting in an urban area. No matter the state, who runs the urban areas?
    I dunno, the man just convicted of shooting the burglars (one killed) in his driveway at nite was just hit with the full sentence here in WA St...in a rural area. (Altho they admitted they were there to rob him, the jurors said 'he didnt know that at the time' and they felt that he shouldnt have assumed his life was in danger.) And yeah, we do have something very similar to Castle Doctrine. Not only that, he had been robbed once already that morning!
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure that you can justify a main gun with a couple reloads, a BUG with reloads, some OC spray, and a knife.much past that and your gonna need a Batman Utility belt.I personally carry a 1911 commander w 3 8 rounders+1 for 25 rounds of 230 grn Federal HST+P,and some OC spray,If I'm traveling I got a bug,usually my Sig 229 40 w/37 rounds of 165 grain HST.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  8. #67
    Member Array ranburr's Avatar
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    I try to carry two pistols, an extra mag for each, two knives, and one flashlight. I carry two pistols because one can break down at the worst possible time. I carry extra mags because the weak link in any semi auto is the magazine. Two knives, because one is large and useless for anything but the obvious. The other knife is used for more mundane task. The flashlight is something that I find myself using for one thing or another almost daily. D.A.s try to take cases to court that they can win. In TX, all shootings go in front of a Grand Jury. They are generally pretty conservative and only care about the facts of the case. These people are typically professionals, many of whom are retired. They are generally a step above what you typically think of on a standard jury. They are not going to waste taxpayer money on a worthless case. If they no bill you, you cannot be sued in civil court. If they do send it to trial and you win, you cannot be sued in civil court. What you are carrying in my part of the state is not going to have any bering on what happens to you.

  9. #68
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    More, or less guilty, is all in the attitude of the DA where the shooting occurs.

    On the North side of "Cross Street" you could be loaded out rivaling some video game character armaments and be good to go with that DA, and get a check from the city for the ammunition depleted in the event of a SD shooting.

    On the south side, the DA will want to lock you up for the term of your life, + 100 years, for carrying a 2 shot .22 mag derringer only, being forced to use it after being chased down (retreating from the BG after giving up your possessions), severely beaten, stabbed, and the BGs gun stuffed in your mouth chipping your front teeth, and all of this caught on a HD city video camera with audio.
    shockwave likes this.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  10. #69
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Glock 23, Cold Steel Lawman, ASP Street Defender , Medicare Card and the business card of my attorney.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  11. #70
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    JMO and I have nothing to base it upon, so it is what it is JMO. I'd say, Yes. IMO, most LEO's would consider a heavily armed citizen as either at worst case, a wacko, or at least overly paranoid to a degree, and then act accordingly. Again this is just a generalized opinion and I'm sure it would vary from officer to officer, but I'd say if you just happen upon that occasional Barney out there be prepared to eat a huge piece of humble pie.

    My thoughts on the subject might center around the fact that if I was a LEO I would probably look at it along the lines of what I stated here. Now that's not saying I'd go all Barney fife on someone, but me being an individual that kinda takes in as much as I can from any situation and then tries to make sense of it, I wouldn't blame an office for doing the same. I usually carry two five shot revolvers with two reloads and my Benchmade Griptillian folder. I personally don't consider that as overkill, but two high capacity autos and a couple more mags could send the wrong message to an officer that may be on the fence regarding civilians being armed, which IMO really isn't any of their concern provided no laws are being broken, but hey! An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure right?
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  12. #71
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    So what's the "reasonable person" test here?

    Let's say you're headed to your car in a parking lot. And let's say you notice that someone is following you, suspicious-like.

    As you get close to your vehicle, rather than degrade your options by fishing for keys and such, instead you turn around to challenge your follower. Maybe you turn and watch him, see what he does. You're ready to draw if necessary.

    Oh goody - it's you're Lucky Day: Mr Street Thug McHoodie jams his hand in a pocket looking to pull something out. You go for your weapon and draw before he does. You see he's pulling a Glock or whatever. You fire a shot in his direction. He takes off running. Or it could go down like this.

    Whatever happens, chances are that you're not going to need a BUG, and you certainly won't need tactical reloads. (YES - I have read cases where people did indeed need those things - it does happen. You might win the lottery, too.)

    The "reasonable man" is going to allow for you to be armed if you are permitted, and will allow for you to send bullets downrange if justified. At that point, you should be looking to disengage. Holding your ground, reloading, switching to backup firearm and reloading that would have the appearance of you wanting to remain in a firezone, you wanting to ensure some kills, downrange.

    Fails the test.

    Now, add onto that the usual mall ninja utility belt EDC crap, and the jury is going to have some interesting deliberations. "Who carries a flashlight with a crenelated bezel?" "Why did he have something he calls a 'back-up knife'? What kind of person does something like that?" Etc.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  13. #72
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    So what's the "reasonable person" test here?

    .
    I'm afraid I dont quite have the faith in my fellow Western Washingtonians....altho I am a Dem and pretty liberal....I dont want to be tried by my fellow staters, esp after the example I posted above. To me, that was NOT a reasonable verdict.

    If I lived in another state/area, then I might have more faith. And of course, I'm just referring to gun crimes here.

    OTOH, 2 yrs ago a man here was found not guilty of homicide when he shot and killed a guy running away with his stereo, in the apt complex parking lot. I believe he actually got a misdemeanor conviction of some type, it was certainly a much lesser charge.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #73
    Member Array JohnWFD's Avatar
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    I carry a Ruger LCP, pepper spray, pocket knife, and flashlight...along with a cell phone. No money though because I'm broke buying all these toys.....


    Very comfortable with this combination.
    "A free people ought to be armed." - George Washington

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