The Wal-Mart Factor

This is a discussion on The Wal-Mart Factor within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK So most Walmarts for the most part nowadays are very large. They are also very universal to a large part of the population. Almost ...

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Thread: The Wal-Mart Factor

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    The Wal-Mart Factor

    OK So most Walmarts for the most part nowadays are very large. They are also very universal to a large part of the population. Almost everybody has to go there at some point for some occasion, they have pretty much saturated our society and made themselves indisposable. They all have multiple ingress and egress points. They also have multiple areas that are pretty secluded. The chances of something going on in one part of the store and you not knowing anything about it is pretty great. This means you could completely go in and out and miss an incident or walk right into it. Ill get back to that.

    My particular store is about 5 miles from my house. It is the ONLY one in our entire county. That means EVERYBODY uses it. I am a dual juvenile/adult probation officer for our Circuit Court. So our offenders and local riff raff are also included in the EVERYBODY using this store. I rarely ever go there without seeing at least one I know from our office. We tend to be more hated than regular LEO. Previously in my career, I have had to take a drunken offender down at gunpoint threatening me with a knife, while in a secluded corner in a Walmart. I carried my Glock 23 exclusvively then, but now have the luxury of having a nice pocket gun in my M&P 340. I recently worked a case regarding a domestic brawl in our local Wally involving blunt weapons and over 5 people involved. This weather tends to push me to drop that J-Frame in a pocket and make Wally runs when needed.

    This evening I went to go there and picked up my M&P 340 stoked with GDHP in 357. The recent brawl combined with a TV interview I recently saw made me strap on the 23 under my Tshirt and shorts. The interview was with the off duty LEO that was the first repsonder in the mall shooting in SLC Utah. The thing I remember him saying was he wished he had more than the small number of rounds in his Compact 1911 off duty gun.

    For any of us who have the choice I would be willing to bet you feel more comfortable with your bigger gun in your hand. I am most proficient and comfortable with my 23. My 340 isnt going anywhere but it has a different role. It will be a BUG and a church gun, and a primary in a very limited role. I have gauged it and the level of sweat and discomfort between the two is really a minimal difference and we know a little sweat on my Glock isnt gonna make a lot of problem.

    So who can understand my position on this and or expand on it any? My job and the tendency to be without backup in very isolated locations with known criminals and their families keeps me vigilant in considering scenarios and how I would handle them when confronted. My ordinary citizen/quasi LEO status also leaves me to consider things that most dont need to. Give me your thoughts and if I have lead you to think about this differently or if you will just keep doing it as you do and carry a tiny gun for summer because it is more comfortable.
    Friends don't let friends be MALL NINJAS.


    I am just as nice as anyone lets me be and can be just as mean as anyone makes me. - Quoted from Terryger, New member to our forum.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    Save money and be safer don't go to Wal Mart!!!!!!
    NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness,
    nor the arrow for its swiftness,
    nor the warrior for his glory.
    I love only that which they defend.
    -J.R.R. Tolkien

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    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    One of my coworkers told me.."Even serial killers need toilet paper and they come here to buy it..."

    That will give you something to think about when you are looking at the individual on the other side of the register.

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    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    In a large sized but really rural county such as ours and a small one income family on afixed budget, we dont have the choice to not shop there sometimes.
    Rock and Glock and TN_Mike like this.
    Friends don't let friends be MALL NINJAS.


    I am just as nice as anyone lets me be and can be just as mean as anyone makes me. - Quoted from Terryger, New member to our forum.

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    Senior Member Array tclance's Avatar
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    I just choose to pay a little more and not go there.

    TC

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    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Hokay, I'll be Devil's Advocate on this one.

    Let's set it up: You're (for whatever weird reason) in the midst of remembering yet again why shopping at a Walmart is a soul-destroying, abysmal experience that makes you feel bad about being an American, and as you move down aisle 15 some yokel from your professional past confronts you, right there by the toasters and large plastic bins Made in China.

    "Hey you! You had me set up, and now it's payback time!"
    Or some similar witticism from Ye Olde Parolee. Now, you pull out your .357 and point it at him. He will:

    a. Go find another aisle to shop in
    b. Laugh and tell you he was "just kidding"
    c. Approach with intent to do malice

    So you fire a shot in his direction.

    Patrons will start screaming and running, all manner of havoc will ensue, and it's unlikely Mr Parolee will continue to wade into your gunfire.

    But if he keeps coming, you have enough firepower to deal with him. If he has buddies, they will probably pick a or b above because this isn't their fight. If it is their business, it's unclear how a larger capacity firearm will offer you substantially better odds. This is why we don't normally read in the paper about how "Off-duty officer guns down 7 in Walmart, after reloading twice."

    What exactly is the scenario whereby you cannot relocate yourself to a safer, non-gunfire-necessary zone? Why do you need to stay in position and continue shooting until all perps are DRT? Maybe a SWAT guy has to do that, but not you. All you have to do is defend yourself and a few rounds of .357 are usually persuasive in this regard. Plus, we have lots of screaming, crazed patrons running around, and the more lead you send downrange, the greater your odds of collateral damage.

    More likely, your simple presentation of a firearm will end your problem. And I think a .357 revolver is more intimidating than a semiauto. They just look meaner.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    Senior Member Array tclance's Avatar
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    IDK about that, looking at the buisness end of a .45 is pretty intimadating also JMO!

    TC

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    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    Let me point a snub nose I can fit in the palm of my hand at you and then pint a .40 caliber midsized auto at you and tell me which is more intimidating. Actually its not about round count its about proficiency and controllability. You have obviosuly never fired a scandium snub in 357.

    My pont also was the fact that Wal marts have permeated our society as a whole and the odds of a dynamic SD situation that will possibly involve a firefight due to the very diverse numbers and types of people being in them 24 hours a day is much greater. Realistically many of them are the size of a small shopping mall. You may be cruising along with no issues and drop in to a situation with no real advance warning. I dont want that situation to be handled by a snub nose I am minimally proficient with. My clients mostly understand their behavior towards me has a greater direct correlation to their loss of freedom than a potential clash with a regular cop. I am not as worried about them "the known" as I am the other "unknown" that come in and out of the store while I am there.
    Friends don't let friends be MALL NINJAS.


    I am just as nice as anyone lets me be and can be just as mean as anyone makes me. - Quoted from Terryger, New member to our forum.

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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    perhaps more practice with that snubby would ease your mind.
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    You have obviosuly never fired a scandium snub in 357.
    If that's how you feel, why are you carrying a firearm you cannot control? Sell it and get a GP100 or whatever fits your comfort profile.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  12. #11
    Member Array Snider's Avatar
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    I think I see what you are getting at here OP - basically that Walmart is a perfect example of "anyone and everyone will be there at some point". Whereas some folks may never step foot in an Office Max or Staples, and others may never go into the Amish Leather & Tack shop. You get a darn near 100% mix of every single type of person in a Walmart, given enough time there at all hours you may literally run into every single member of your community.

    In your situation I'd be very, very cautious, period (well yeah, of course you already are!). Beyond being cautious, packing heavy enough to be confidant, and going during the busier times of the day, I don't see many ways to improve things. I have no LEO background, or many friends who do; are you in a position to wear your vest in the store? To me, that sounds like a decent idea, but it may sound hilariously overkill to you and everyone else... just tossing the idea out there.

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    Member Array ProPatria's Avatar
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    I recommend wearing a ball-cap and sunglasses at wally world, at least the ball-cap. Also, make sure to dress differently than you do (plain-clothes) at work. I would skip the 511 pants/shirt, the "shoot-me-first" vests, door-kicker shirts, blue-line bracelets, etc. We often make it too easy for the bad guys by advertising.

    Another few things I would recommend: if you carry your pistol, in addition to your spare mags and EDC, be sure to also carry handcuffs (or tuff-ties, etc.) (with a cuff key, don't forget); also carry your badge somewhere on your belt or neck, near the pistol; carry a small OC spray with you, for various liability and non-lethal defensive reasons (sometimes they don't need to be shot, but really still need to go to the hospital and then jail).

    Also don't let anxiety and stress get the better of you- just take the precautions, prepare well, and keep your situational awareness. You sound way more prepared and concerned than the average off-duty LEO, if that encourages you at all.
    Train, shoot, and write your state/local/US reps, as often as you post on gun boards, and America will be just fine. Semper Fi.

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    Member Array cmycek's Avatar
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    I like having the .45 on me if possible, but also think that 8 rounds of .32 would help me in a pinch when the weather is hot. Kudos for your career choice, stay safe. Walmart can be scary.
    Exercise your 2nd amendment rights....not doing so jeopardizes that right for everyone.

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    Ex Member Array Yankeejib's Avatar
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    As I read the OP, I find the subject is not about Walmarts. These situations can happen anywhere. The subject is SD and what gun to carry for what situation. One, I would never count on presentation as a deterrent. Irrational people will maintain their crazy ways no matter. You are more comfortable with your bigger semi, you have more shots for follow up, and you will be more effective with it. Carry it. I usually have Glock 23 on the hip and my SP101 in my front pocket. If I have 2 seconds to compose myself in an SD situation, the Glock will be my go to, but in a hypothetical situation where I get jumped, or someone gets the draw on me and demands my wallet, I would be all about the .357 snubbie. Common knowledge says to offer a diversion to create a window. Drop or spill the wallet or yell at an imaginary "person" coming up behind the BG. This gives you the split second you need to regain the upper hand. Then shoot. If your neck hairs are standing and you feel like puking, you're in a SD situation. I would think your occupation would allow you to determine in a split second if your life is in jeopardy. Remember AOJP and use it to analyze any hypothetical or potential situation: Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy, Preclusion. All must be present for a "clean" shoot. Ability of the BG to do you harm, opportunity for him to do it, jeopardy of yours or others well being if you do nothing, and preclusion: did you do everything to prevent an incident.

    PS: I own tiny guns (less than 9mm/.38sp), but I would never trust my life to them. They're only carried by folks more interested in convenience than actual self-preservation. Yeah, it's better than a stick or a rock, but my life is more important than convenience. Carry is meant to be comforting, not comfortable. And considering the number of small 9mm available that would deliver an FBI approved ballistic punch, there's no excuse for carrying anything less. Newton's second law is Force=mass times acceleration. A 95 grain .380 gets 750 ft/second or 71K force units. A 147 grain 9mm gets 1100 ft/sec or 161K force units, more than double the punch.

    I will now cede my position on the soapbox...stay safe....
    Stubborn likes this.

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    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Not everyone goes to Walmart. I avoid them. Beyond their unsavory business model, they are frequented by a large number of low rent trash.

    People often post about avoiding bad or higher risk areas like ghettos or areas with alcohol consumption. Walmart fits this bill for me.

    The closest I want to get to a Walmart is those walmartian emails of trashy Walmart shoppers!
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

    Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”

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