Altercation last night, almost went bad fast. Recap and lessons learned

Altercation last night, almost went bad fast. Recap and lessons learned

This is a discussion on Altercation last night, almost went bad fast. Recap and lessons learned within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So I worked late last night, and got out around 2:30AM. It had been a long day/night so I decided to stop by the 24 ...

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Thread: Altercation last night, almost went bad fast. Recap and lessons learned

  1. #1
    Member Array booyah's Avatar
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    Altercation last night, almost went bad fast. Recap and lessons learned

    So I worked late last night, and got out around 2:30AM.

    It had been a long day/night so I decided to stop by the 24 hour grocery store in the area to grab a 6 pack of beer to drink once I got home.

    This grocery store is in a wealthy suburb, a really "boring nice area" where nothing ever happens. Of course....

    At the grocery store, I found out that the state doesnt allow sales of alcohol between 2AM and 7AM to my minor annoyance and headed back out to my car.

    I wasnt parked anywhere odd, near the door under a light. As I walked to my car another car pulled up next to it in the next logical spot and thee people got out, one lady who proceeded into the store, and two men, one skinny, about 5'8" and another probably 6'4" and 300lb+. Now I'm not a small guy, I'm 6' about 230 and very broad across the shoulders. I ride my bike, hike and run for exercise so I'm what I would consider pretty fit. I could stand to lose about 10lbs, but not much more than that. The big guy was big enough that he made me feel tiny, so thats saying something.

    I kept walking not thinking too much of it, until I got right by my car and the big guy made what looked like a move to hug my middle.
    I straight armed him at the shoulders to stop him and slipped around him putting his friend on the other side of him from me.

    I backed up about 4 or 5 steps and held both hands flat out out saying "Woah there, whats that all about"

    The small guy started talking fast about how his buddy was drunk, and acting like an a$$, how its his 21st birthday and they were taking him home.
    The big guy got his balance back (at this point it made sense that he was drunk as a skunk) and started to advance on me getting obviously agitated saying "Hey, why did you shove me!?!"

    I backed up a few more steps turning sideways and checking my 6 (it was clear, the three of us where the only ones within 50 yards). I placed my left hand out infront of myself and braced my footing. My right hand I put behind my body and just outside my rear pocket where my Kel-Tec 380 was. I faced both of them and in a calm loud voice stated "I don't want to have any trouble here with us"

    At this point the skinny guy stepped infront of his friend and started pushing him back saying "You dont want this, your drunk and acting like an a$$, leave this guy alone, we're just going in the store, leave this guy alone" etc etc etc.

    Overall it didnt get bad, but it certainly had the potential, the things I learned from this were primarily
    1. Carry all the time (already known, but certainly driven home)
    2. Keep the SA up, I didnt realize the big guy was drunk, until after he lunged at me. I reacted quickly to that, or it could have gone down him right there.
    3. Keep your distance, I never should have let the guys get within a range where the big guy could come at me in the first place, but I didnt want to be too obvious that I was watching them and wanted to avoid them as I walked through the lot.
    4. If its after 2AM dont bother trying to get beer as in Michigan they can't sell it to you anyways.

    Any other lessons I should take away from this? How would you have handled it?

    I also remember myself thinking "Man I wish I had the 45" as my hand hovered by the 380


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Overall, it sounds like you did fine.

    What would you have done if the big guy had advanced on you?

    Personally, I would get a bigger gun , but that is a personal choice.
    Spade115 and OldMick like this.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  3. #3
    Member Array booyah's Avatar
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    I was full stage orange. I had already drawn the lines in my mind. He had two steps till I drew, and one more till I started firing. I was probably 6 large paces from him.

    I do have a double stack 45 as well, but the P3AT is awfully handy to carry hence I had it on me. I love the 45 but it doesnt conceal as well as I would like even with the supertuck I have for it. The 380 rides in a Don Hume 002 wallet style holster and just vanishes in my pocket looking like a normal wallet from the outside.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    LIke I said, its a personal choice.

    It seems that you believe you would have had sufficient disparity of force to justify shooting?

    Would a non lethal option like oc have been useful?
    BugDude likes this.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    We carry for worst case scenario, that’s why I never leave home without the 1911 in 45

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    learning is an ongoing process. after being caught short the rest of the event went well as the little guy got the proper 'feel' for your intolerance level.

    as for not wanting to 'stare at'....being obvious. that is rather exactly what i do on the streets. you make brief eye contact at 20ish feet--enough to say ' i see you, we recognize that we are both here.' a slight nod of your head breaks contact. if they move in on you after that , than it is for a reason--you will have to find that out.

    2 things about how BG's perceive someone who does not break eye contact--1-they think you are another BG or 2- you are a cop.
    either way, honestly, works for me.
    Arthritis sucks big-big
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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    You did well. I agree with Guantes about the weapon choice, but a Gun on you is better than one left a home...Im glad it worked out.

    BTW what part of MI are you in?
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    In addition to what Claude stated, in some circles especially bangers, failure to break eye contact is considered eye screwing and will often trigger a response.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    Guantes, for sure eye contact is an art type unto itself. different 'types' of peoples, too much or too little may cause various comebacks.

    from the gate, if i get a 'yo, man ..whatca lookin at.....' i answerer as in ---"your looking at me looking at you like you know me. i don't think i know you. ua know like....have we met?"
    if they push past this, than there was nothing that you did--they were out for someone and it happens now to be you.

    so, don't go to stupid places and especially, cause sometimes a detoured may occur--don't leave home without em.
    ain't just Karl who may get upset.
    Arthritis sucks big-big
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  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    True re the art. Even the direction of a head nod, up or down, can make a difference.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    i lower my chin but not my eyes
    ---------------

    i offer up respect as an equal....i care not how you are dressed.

    a simple fact of life often overlooked is that--no matter how they are perceived by our eyes, to themselves: they are important.

    take that from someone at your own risk.

    ----> the mouse may think its an elephant on its mothers side. RAH
    Arthritis sucks big-big
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  12. #12
    Member Array booyah's Avatar
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    Lemme put it this way, this was the Okemos Meijer :-)

  13. #13
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    I do not like people putting their hands on me...old men are not very friendly like that...
    I would probably have stayed away from someone too close to my car door. Two guys in front of me, and one of them grabbing for me would probably have had the big guy tasting some OC spray. It would have already been in my hand.
    Any other movements by either would probably have made me back up and go into the store...call 911 and wait. I'm not looking for trouble, nor will I tolerate aggressive behavior...either I 'exit' the area, if possible, or 'exit' the individual.
    BugDude and msgt/ret like this.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    If you decided to shoot, I would be fine with that. It's not my business how others defend themselves. However, shooting somebody is a tremendous legal hassle. I'm not saying I wouldn't have drawn if the situation escalated, but I see it more as a fist fight type scenario. The big guy was drunk and probably wasn't prepared to really throw down, and the little guy wasn't being aggressive.

    So if the big guy starts walking towards you talking smack I would have been prepared to throw combo's, drop the big guy, and assess the little guy's reaction. It doesn't really matter how big you are; if someone is landing hard punches, then you're in trouble.

    I would never consider carrying OC because it seems like a hassle, but that's just my opinion. Learn to box.

  15. #15
    Member Array booyah's Avatar
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    Disparity of force to me said a shoot scenario could be called for.

    I'm not a fan of trading punches with a drunk as they are less likely to feel them. True a hit to the ear canal would probably have dropped him hard, he could have come back up angry as a wounded bear.

    My thought at that point was draw and hold semi low ready. If he continued forward its a shoot scenario. Like I said in my mind the lines were drawn. No time for hesitation at 6 paces

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