Friends brother was shot!

This is a discussion on Friends brother was shot! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Doesn't it stand to reason that you can only defend yourself with deadly force if there is no way to escape, and the attack was ...

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Thread: Friends brother was shot!

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Doesn't it stand to reason that you can only defend yourself with deadly force if there is no way to escape, and the attack was unprovoked?

    In this case, I presume that neither of these criteria have been met. If he pulled in behind the truck, he could have backed out just as easily (if he was indeed still in his car). Also, by "honking and revving", followed by stopping his car instead of passing after the truck pulled off, didn't he have some measure of involvement in the attack? Sounds like they should both be considered instigators in this...

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array borglyn's Avatar
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    "Play stupid games win stupid prizes" ..........Sixto
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Brass63's Avatar
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    A 40 cal wound to the gut, court costs, perhaps years in prison...all this over losing...what? Maybe 60 or 120 seconds behind a slow vehicle?
    Yea, not too bright.
    Road rage is Russian Roulette.
    Avoid it like the plague.
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  5. #19
    Member Array Billspider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    And as you can see, he's now in court. Likely to go to trial.

    Keep holding the idea it's okay to shoot unarmed people and you too can likely share a cell with him.

    Note: Yes there are situations where it may be justified to shoot an unarmed person. But those situations are extremely rare and certainly wasn't justified in this case.

    Saying "I was in fear of my life" isn't an automatic free pass. It has to pass the smell test. It certainly wouldn't pass my smell test if I were on the jury. (based only on the story as it was related here).
    Where does it say this kid was charged with anything?

    Florida has a stand your ground law:

    The Florida law is a self-defense, self-protection law. It has four key components:

    It establishes that law-abiding residents and visitors may legally presume the threat of bodily harm or death from anyone who breaks into a residence or occupied vehicle and may use defensive force, including deadly force, against the intruder.


    In any other place where a person “has a right to be,” that person has “no duty to retreat” if attacked and may “meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”


    In either case, a person using any force permitted by the law is immune from criminal prosecution or civil action and cannot be arrested unless a law enforcement agency determines there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful.


    If a civil action is brought and the court finds the defendant to be immune based on the parameters of the law, the defendant will be awarded all costs of defense.

  6. #20
    Member Array Alude904's Avatar
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    yeah my buddy said the kid is going to be on trial soon but i forget when he said. i say both parties were stupid and both of them could have avoided it but i'm assuming that the kid will get some time. he made three mistakes, 1. pulling over when the guy pulled over (probably will be the determining factor on him going to jail) 2. carrying FMJ. my friend said his brother was shot point blank range (less likely to kill the assailant imo) 3. he only pulled the trigger once. now i don't wish that my friends brother would have died, i'm glad he was able to keep his life after that. but the thing is, that kid obviously wasn't educated on self defense, not one bit. and it scares me that there are people like that out there that are legally aloud to carry but don't educate themselves. but then again, this is only one side of the story. i'm sure the kid has his side

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billspider View Post
    Where does it say this kid was charged with anything?

    Florida has a stand your ground law:

    The Florida law is a self-defense, self-protection law. It has four key components:

    It establishes that law-abiding residents and visitors may legally presume the threat of bodily harm or death from anyone who breaks into a residence or occupied vehicle and may use defensive force, including deadly force, against the intruder.


    In any other place where a person “has a right to be,” that person has “no duty to retreat” if attacked and may “meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”


    In either case, a person using any force permitted by the law is immune from criminal prosecution or civil action and cannot be arrested unless a law enforcement agency determines there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful.


    If a civil action is brought and the court finds the defendant to be immune based on the parameters of the law, the defendant will be awarded all costs of defense.
    But how does the law treat a shooter who initiated the conflict, where the shoot-ee escalated it? I know that here in my home state of WA, if someone starts beating me through a window of my car, I have the right to shoot him, but not if I flipped him off first. I lose my "self defense" claim if I was responsible for initiating or escalating the situation.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alude904 View Post
    3. he only pulled the trigger once. now i don't wish that my friends brother would have died, i'm glad he was able to keep his life after that. but the thing is, that kid obviously wasn't educated on self defense, not one bit. and it scares me that there are people like that out there that are legally aloud to carry but don't educate themselves. but then again, this is only one side of the story. i'm sure the kid has his side
    If someone is attacking you, and one shot stops the attack, can you continue shooting them?

  9. #23
    Member Array Billspider's Avatar
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    I wasn't there so I don't have all the facts, but in Florida if you attack someone in their vehicle you are commiting a felony and the person you are attacking has the right to use deadly force to prevent your entry and attack. I'm stating what the law in Florida is.
    I didn't say I would shoot in that situation so I'd appreciate no stupid comments on what cell I might share.

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    But how does the law treat a shooter who initiated the conflict, where the shoot-ee escalated it? I know that here in my home state of WA, if someone starts beating me through a window of my car, I have the right to shoot him, but not if I flipped him off first. I lose my "self defense" claim if I was responsible for initiating or escalating the situation.
    Giving someone the finger is not grounds for an assault. It's the old "sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me"
    This kid might have thought the truck was having mechanical problems and pulled over to help. His attorney will probably say as much.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billspider View Post
    Giving someone the finger is not grounds for an assault. It's the old "sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me"
    While if I flip you off, curse your mother, or insult your wife, and you attack me it doesn't release you from the burden of assault charges, it DOES prevent me from using deadly force to defend myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billspider View Post
    This kid might have thought the truck was having mechanical problems and pulled over to help. His attorney will probably say as much.
    I have no doubt of that... Especially since it's entirely verbal, unless witnesses come forward that can cover the entire incident.

  12. #26
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    They were BOTH wrong. You fiends brother should have never started anything by pulling over and getting out of the car. The kid in the Acura should have never escalated it. Even so, I wouldn't see it as justified shooting even if it was all your friends brother fault, UNLESS he didn't have the chance to drive off. Even if the is a stand you ground law, or the car is considered in a castle doctrine, it'd be difficult even to claim disperity of force unless you friends brother is like 6'5" and 250lbs. Just my opinion.

  13. #27
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    Sounds like both were dumber than a box of rocks, they just so happened to wind up in the same box on the same day!
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    While if I flip you off, curse your mother, or insult your wife, and you attack me it doesn't release you from the burden of assault charges, it DOES prevent me from using deadly force to defend myself.



    I have no doubt of that... Especially since it's entirely verbal, unless witnesses come forward that can cover the entire incident.
    You have a right to defend yourself and that right is not foreited because of a verbal exchange. If the kid exited his vehicle the physical act would have been an escalation. Sitting and calling someone names isn't.
    If this goes to a jury they will be instructed to rule on law not smell tests or anything other than law and evidence.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billspider View Post
    Where does it say this kid was charged with anything?

    Florida has a stand your ground law:

    The Florida law is a self-defense, self-protection law. It has four key components:

    It establishes that law-abiding residents and visitors may legally presume the threat of bodily harm or death from anyone who breaks into a residence or occupied vehicle and may use defensive force, including deadly force, against the intruder.


    In any other place where a person “has a right to be,” that person has “no duty to retreat” if attacked and may “meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”


    In either case, a person using any force permitted by the law is immune from criminal prosecution or civil action and cannot be arrested unless a law enforcement agency determines there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful.


    If a civil action is brought and the court finds the defendant to be immune based on the parameters of the law, the defendant will be awarded all costs of defense.
    You might check your case law. There's been more than a few Florida folks arrested and tried despite the Stand Your Ground statute.

    I'm not sure how many were eventually acquitted and how many went to prison, but I know every one went financially bankrupt trying to beat the rap. One was just a couple years ago in Palm Beach county IIRC.


    My state does not have a "stand your ground" type law as of yet, but we do have Castle Doctrine which does cover inside your vehicle, RV, camping tent, hotel, motel, etc. But I'm not about to be the case study for shooting an unarmed guy for slapping me around after I initiated a road rage incident. That's just stupid on it's surface.
    oneshot likes this.
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  16. #30
    Member Array Billspider's Avatar
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    This link has the case law and explainations

    http://www.law.miami.edu/studentorg/...no1/MIA102.pdf

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