July 27th, 2011 08:51 PM
While that link might have lots of useful info in it, I'm having trouble taking it seriously with quotes like this right at the beginning:
Although it should have troubled the legislature that the individuals charged with enforcing the
law—prosecutors and law enforcement—opposed the law,7 the dissent
by these groups did not dissuade the Florida Legislature.
I'm going to read through some more of it, but that sounds awfully biased for a law school. Or maybe it shouldn't surprise me at all...
The NRA’s self-interest—sanctioning
the use of deadly force in more circumstances and thereby sanction-
ing the use of firearms in those situations—and heavy involvement in
creating and passing the legislation did not deter the Florida Legislature.
July 27th, 2011 08:55 PM
Okay, a little farther down the page, they start making a case for amending the law out of existence.
This article addresses problematic aspects of the law and its actual
effects in Florida and then makes recommendations for amendments that
would eradicate some of the law’s problems. Part One of this article
introduces the Protection of Persons Bill and the changes that it made to
Florida law. Part Two addresses issues that have arisen with the law,
including dissent among prosecutors and law enforcement, the irrebut-
table presumption of an intruder’s malicious intent, confusion with the
application of the law and the law’s functioning as more of a bar to
prosecution than a defense, and troublesome incidents that have
occurred in Florida. Next, Part Three lays out recommendations for cre-
ating a system to track claims of self-defense, recommends amendments
to the current law, and explains the rationales behind the recommenda-
tions. Finally, Part Four concludes and summarizes how the recom-
mended amendments can serve the purpose of clarifying and improving
the law to the benefit of prosecutors, law enforcement, and Florida
July 27th, 2011 08:57 PM
As hard as they tried it is still Florida law. That was the point of my posting this link.
July 27th, 2011 09:00 PM
Yeah, but it's an opinion piece, no matter how you look at it. They might reference valid facts, but it's cherry picked to form an opinion.
Originally Posted by Billspider
July 27th, 2011 09:02 PM
Two stupids never makes a smart.
and wait for it.....
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!
July 27th, 2011 09:08 PM
This link is to back up my claim that if you attack someone in their vehicle, in Florida the law allows the use of deadly force. The mere fact that you attack someone in their vehicle, according to Florida law, presumes that the attacker means to kill or cause grave bodily injury, ie it proves intent.
July 27th, 2011 09:13 PM
I wish I had the energy to dig through my books. I know that I have more than one that advise that you have to be blameless in the entire altercation to claim self defense. They give references, but I just don't have the energy to give it the effort it deserves.
But think about it though. What if I get out of my car, go start something (punch a guy in the face, or just insult a surly looking fellow), run back to my car and wait for him to punch me through the window. If you're right about your interpretation of the law, I just got away with murder.
July 27th, 2011 09:20 PM
Point Blank? so he was less then say 100 yards?
Originally Posted by Alude904
July 27th, 2011 09:27 PM
I'd like to make this clear. It is not my interpretation of Florida law The link clearly spells out when deadly force can be used.
I would not use deadly force in that situation unless I reasonably believed my life was in danger. In most States three thing must be present to use deadly force;
1. Ability to cause death or grave bodily injury
2. Opportunity to cause death or grave bodily injury
3. Intent to cause the above.
If you can not prove the above you will have no protection from prosecution under most States self defense laws
July 27th, 2011 10:28 PM
IMO if I was a juror.....kid in car provoked the friend by his actions when following, he then continued provoking by stopping behind the vehicle that had pulled over to let him go by
the driver of that vehicle screwed up by provoking things in getting out of vehicle and escalating into a fight
I say charge 'em both for their part in the thing
Certified Glock Armorer
"I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?
July 27th, 2011 10:28 PM
similar situation in Oviedo, Florida last year. Outcome is that the guy that got shot is going to prison for assault. No charges were filed against the shooter.
IDs Released In Road-Rage Shooting
Authorities Continue To Investigate Oviedo Incident
POSTED: Thursday, May 27, 2010
UPDATED: 7:41 pm EDT May 28, 2010
OVIEDO, Fla. -- Authorities in Seminole County on Friday continued to investigate a shooting involving a Titusville fire inspector that was triggered by a road-rage incident.
According to a Seminole County Sheriff's Office report, Mark Whorton, 50, a Titusville inspector for four years, shot Michael McClarin, 34, Thursday evening on Chapman Road in the Mayfair Oaks subdivision in Oviedo.
McClarin, of Casselberry, suffered a gunshot wound to the chest just above his heart, but the bullet missed all his vital organs. Investigators said he called his family immediately after he was shot.
"He was calling his family members as he was standing there plugging his own wound," said Seminole County sheriff's Lt. James Clark.
McClarin was taken to a nearby hospital, but his condition is not known.
According to the report, McClarin said Whorton, who was driving a silver Lexus, blocked the roadway with his car, causing traffic to back up. McClarin said he tried to go around the Lexus, but Whorton began moving and hit his vehicle, according to the report.
McClarin said he followed car into the subdivision, cut the car off and approached Whorton, according to the report. He said Whorton then shot him point blank in the chest, according to the report.
Whorton, of Oviedo, claims that McClarin, who was driving a Honda Fit, ran into his car before getting out and punching him.
Whorton called 911, at which time a dispatcher asked him what happened.
"He assaulted me," said Whorton, who was returning from his workday in Titusville and was still wearing his uniform. "He came out and punched me right in the head."
"(McClarin) punched the other driver, and the guy in the (other) car whipped out his pistol and shot him," said Matt Caselli, a 15-year-old who witnessed the incident.
The gun was surrendered to the police, and one shell casing was found at the scene. It's not yet known if any charges will be filed in the incident.
Whorton started at Titusville Fire and Emergency Services on May 10, 2006, and "has an exemplary record and a great rapport with the community," said Division Chief Scott Gaenicke, who added that Whorton has been an employee of the month and a recipient of the chief's award. "You've got to be a people person to be an inspector."
Whorton is one of two fire inspectors in the department. He was placed on paid administrative leave after the shooting.
"It all depends on what happens with the police investigation," Gaenicke said. "But we also will be reviewing the case to see if any department policies were violated."
and the outcome:
Man wounded in Oviedo road rage incident going to prison
July 25, 2011|
By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
SANFORD — Michael McClarin, who staggered from door to door in an Oviedo neighborhood after he'd been shot in the chest during a road rage confrontation last year, on Monday pleaded no contest to punching the other driver.
The shooter, Titusville fire inspector Mark Whorton, was not charged.
McClarin, 35, of Casselberry, is to be sentenced later. He faces 13 to 18 months in prison.
He was charged with burglary with a battery.
Kimbers are the guns you show your friends....Glocks are the ones you show your enemies.
July 27th, 2011 10:39 PM
Making a decision on who's at fault and for what, based on only one side of a story is not a very good idea. I'd be willing to bet that the kid's version differs greatly from your friends. Just saying.........
July 27th, 2011 10:53 PM
Stupid + stupid = stupid.
Both did the wrong thing.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
July 27th, 2011 11:07 PM
Road rage never ends well. Sometimes it's just better to be cool and laugh about the other idiots on the road.
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]
July 28th, 2011 09:33 AM
Nice to see fellow forum members have a concensus on this thread and, to some extent, critcize the thread -writer for his somewhat onesided comments. In states where CC is prevalent, you have to be crazy, if not irresponsible, to initiate a road rage incident. Having said that--if you are CC you have a responsibilty to swallow your pride and get away from a potential road rage incident. Whoever has the firearm had better be in imminent danger of death or great bodily injury without having increased the likelihood of same--if not and I am on a jury you will get no sympathy from me.
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