Friends brother was shot!

This is a discussion on Friends brother was shot! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by OD* Sounds like a lack of gray matter in both parties. ^^^^^^^^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Here's they're sign;;;...

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Thread: Friends brother was shot!

  1. #61
    VIP Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    Sounds like a lack of gray matter in both parties.





    ^^^^^^^^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^^^^



    Here's they're sign;;;
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  3. #62
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I also agree that "stand your ground" doesn't apply here. What we have in this instance is the shooter created the entire event. The man in the truck was driving slowly because he was hauling a load of stuff (and assuming he was driving slowly because he didn't want to damage anything), but regardless of why he was driving slowly, just because he was driving under the speed limit does not mean he was doing anything wrong, and was not violating any traffic laws. (The only place I am aware of which have a minimum speed limit is on Interstate highways.

    ...

    All "stand your ground laws" have the necessary component of being completely innocent of any crime or wrong doing. You can not be seen as provoking the incident, escalating the incident and then claim to be a completely innocent party to the events. It just doesn't work that way. It's a matter of the shooter possessing a level of "culpability" in the events leading up to the shooting.

    You continually impress me with your ability to put my own thoughts into better words than I could ever come up with :) Well said.


    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    we all need to remember, the key words here are what is Florida law....all else is what-ifs and irrelevant law from other states

    for instance....if what was given by OP happened in Texas the kid in the car would most likely be charged since he stopped the car (and he was not helping the guy out with transporting his load or happened to be stopping at the house they were in front of)....he provoked the other guy (stoked the fire) and under Texas law him using deadly force would not be justified
    they would both be charged

    in Florida, it may be different
    Some of these concepts are far older than Texas and Florida. "Stand your ground" is based on the concept of "Castle Doctrine", the God-given right to defend your home, self, and family without concern of what happens later.

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    "Stand your ground" is based on the concept of "Castle Doctrine", the God-given right to defend your home, self, and family without concern of what happens later.
    Defending yourself, home and family does not cover setting up a situation in which you provoke an attack then kill another person.

    That's an ambush, and beyond the scope of the consept of defense.
    64zebra and Bubbiesdad like this.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Defending yourself, home and family does not cover setting up a situation in which you provoke an attack then kill another person.

    That's an ambush, and beyond the scope of the consept of defense.
    Precisely

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Some of these concepts are far older than Texas and Florida. "Stand your ground" is based on the concept of "Castle Doctrine", the God-given right to defend your home, self, and family without concern of what happens later.
    I'm well aware of what castle doctrine stands for, this ain't my first rodeo
    and the concept of castle doctrine was actually already in Texas law before our legislature finally decided to reword the penal code to be consistent and clear on the topic

    whether the concepts are older than dirt is of no consequence if they are not law and will not be given to the jury with instructions on what is legal, illegal, and evidence presented to find a person guilty or not
    I see it every time I have to testify in court on my cases.
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  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT
    Defending yourself, home and family does not cover setting up a situation in which you provoke an attack then kill another person.

    That's an ambush, and beyond the scope of the consept of defense.
    Precisely
    +2
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  8. #67
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    This sounds very simular to another incident that happend here last month.

    Thread posted here:
    File this under "Bad"

    Guys get into road rage incident during parking lot traffic jam after Styx concert.
    First guy gets out of car, punches second guy's wife through her car window. Second car gets out of car with a baseball bat and attacks first guy.

    If I remember correctly the guy that got beat with the bat already had his hand in a cast because according to his wife "He was having a bad day last week and punched a wall, and broke his hand!"
    Sounds like he has an anger management issue to me.

    It will be intesting to see if the guy using the bat is found to be justified in using it against an unarmed man.

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billspider View Post
    You would be just exercising your First Amendment Right to free speech.
    What would give them the right to invade your vehicle and assault you?
    In Florida as the law is written they would be in violation of the law and they would place themselves in mortal danger.
    I wouldn't suggest anyone do that.
    I don't think the first ammendment was intended to protect slander. Unless you have first hand knowledge of their sexual orientation I think you could be charged with slander.

    You sure as hell should be charged with stupidity!

  10. #69
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    Yes in that case stupidity would apply.
    You are protected under the First Amendment if your statements are opinion and you don't claim them to be fact.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billspider View Post
    Yes in that case stupidity would apply.
    You are protected under the First Amendment if your statements are opinion and you don't claim them to be fact.
    Agreed, it's not slander unless it's:

    1) in a public forum.
    2) it's a serious misrepresentation of the facts

    There's more to it I think, but essentially yelling out the window that someone is *insert derogatory term here* when they're with a group of friends is a little different than standing in front of a rally of some kind doing the same thing, or running it on TV.

  12. #71
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    I'm getting in on this a little late, but I think both parties were idiots. The driver of the truck was cool to pull over and let the person around, but as soon as the person stopped and got out behind me I'd have taken off driving again. Nobody gets punched, nobody gets shot, problem solved. The driver was an idiot for stopping, carrying on the conversation and hitting the guy, and the shooter was an idiot for getting out of his car and acting a fool, as well as for shooting the driver. Both had AMPLE opportunity to end the situation, and both should be put in a public area, manacled to the ground with their noses in a chalk circle on a portable chalk board until they're both ready to hug and apologize.
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  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    I'm getting in on this a little late, but I think both parties were idiots. The driver of the truck was cool to pull over and let the person around, but as soon as the person stopped and got out behind me I'd have taken off driving again. Nobody gets punched, nobody gets shot, problem solved. The driver was an idiot for stopping, carrying on the conversation and hitting the guy, and the shooter was an idiot for getting out of his car and acting a fool, as well as for shooting the driver. Both had AMPLE opportunity to end the situation, and both should be put in a public area, manacled to the ground with their noses in a chalk circle on a portable chalk board until they're both ready to hug and apologize.
    I think you misread the original post. It was the driver of the truck who got out and went back to the trailing vehicle and punched the driver. The driver who got punched, fired the weapon into the driver of the truck, who was not in his own vehicle.
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  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    This sounds very simular to another incident that happend here last month.

    Thread posted here:
    File this under "Bad"

    Guys get into road rage incident during parking lot traffic jam after Styx concert.
    First guy gets out of car, punches second guy's wife through her car window. Second car gets out of car with a baseball bat and attacks first guy.

    If I remember correctly the guy that got beat with the bat already had his hand in a cast because according to his wife "He was having a bad day last week and punched a wall, and broke his hand!"
    Sounds like he has an anger management issue to me.

    It will be intesting to see if the guy using the bat is found to be justified in using it against an unarmed man.
    If he hit her with the hand with the cast, that would be a weapon.

    Someone hits my wife, first line of defense would be pepper spray. If I could controle my anger, hopefully.

    This and the original post, is why people need to train with non-lethal modes of self defense.

    Pepper spray, expandable baton, where legal, and with proper training, and a knowledge of PPCT(pressure point and control tactics), are a handy thing to have.
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  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by high pockets View Post
    I think you misread the original post. It was the driver of the truck who got out and went back to the trailing vehicle and punched the driver. The driver who got punched, fired the weapon into the driver of the truck, who was not in his own vehicle.
    Oh, my mistake. Still entirely preventable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    Sounds like there was more than enough stupidity to go around, Never stop for something like that, and never never get out of your vehicle.
    That sums it up. The brother should've minded his own and the 'kid' should've kept on driving and minded his own.
    Two stupid hot-heads on the road equals a bad day for all involved.
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