That's what I did. I responded with how I would deal exactly with such an occurrence.
Originally Posted by oakchas
I understand the family in question was totally unprepared. I understand that basically, there was nothing else for them to do in such a situation. I understand that a vast majority of the population are just as ill prepared as this Christian missionary family was.
I can not be responsible for how other people choose to live their lives and raise their families. So I'm not sure of the point of your last post would be.
I choose to have my home fortified to allow me the time to prepare to defend myself. No one is just going to walk up and with one swift kick of their size 12 boot is going to kick my door in. Like I posted before, it's going to take around 30+ blows with a battering ram to get my door open.
That provides time to think, time to respond and time to defend. So, if I was in a deep sleep from three nights of suffering through a croupy kid or a kid with colic, or if my wife was in the other room with the baby and unarmed, the constant battering of the front, or any of my doors would at least alert us, and allow us enough time to defend.
Even before I had such an arsenal, every house I ever lived in, I at least fortified the entry points in some fashion beyond the way it was before I moved in. And being a dog lover, I've always had at least one dog which makes for a decent alarm system.
If other people want to ignore their homes security, rely on flimsy cheap locks, crappy door trim, leave windows unlocked and such, there's nothing I can do about it. If the head of the household wants to shirk his responsibility as protector of his family, it's no skin off my back.
I've been security conscious for a very long time. It's just part of who I am. It wasn't acquired over night, and it took a long time to develop as well as considerable expense. And now, it's just second nature to me.
My wife used to be a paramedic too. She was disabled from injuries she sustained on the job twenty years ago. I still work 24 hour shifts and although I can come home in the evenings where I work now, I am often gone for extended periods of time at anytime day or night. But has the head of the house, I assure her that no one is just going to be able to come up and easily kick our door in. She shoots as much as she can. She has her own guns. She can handle any and all guns we own including magnums, shotguns and my 30.06. She keeps at least one gun on her at all times. Even inside our home. But if someone comes to break in while I'm not there, it isn't going to be an easy task for them to get in. I can assure you, she wouldn't hesitate a second to drop the hammer on some intruder, but the whole point is to avoid that if at all possible.
Some people don't prepare for anything. In fact, I would say, most people don't prepare. We aren't one of those families. So, yeah... People who don't prepare, don't have guns get to be victims and suffer the consequences.
Prepare for something you might have to respond to,or,respond to something you've never prepared for!(K.D.C. 1st Recon.)
1. Bend over and take it.
2. Hope and pray that accurate and determined fire will neutralize and/or destroy the will of the invaders.
5 Bgs with shotguns will believe they have the fear factor working for them; therefore, a hard defense, say dropping one or two, may cause the remainder to flee.
If possible hit them hard, hit them fast, and drop as many as you can!!!!!!
Instead of dieing like a victim, fight like a warrior!!!
Family is to precious to give over to the whims of shotgun whiling thugs without a fight to the finish!!!!!
I have noticed that in the dog kingdom even a small dog that will fight can hold its home turf from much bigger dogs.
If a dog can defend his turf, ie. home, surely we can hold our homes with courage and proper equipment and forethought and training!!!!
Bark'n, my post wasn't aimed at you specifically... But, as you say, you have not yet fortified your windows, so you are not 100% up to snuff on your own preparations.
Originally Posted by Bark'n
There are times when even the most prepared amongst us can be caught unawares or under-prepared at least.. And, there is the possibility that at that inopportune moment, something bad will happen.
There are those amongst us here, who believe they are prepared, they have a loaded shotty in the bedroom. The bedroom and all sleeping quarters are not on the main floor of entry.
Even if the latter had been the case in the attack portrayed, the scene, as it occurred, was "out of the norm" even for a family at this level of security. There are those who believe in home defense and do not carry a weapon, so might not have one on them in the house.
Your preparations are exemplary... And, I agree with all of them you've told us about. But not everyone is at your level of preparedness, for whatever reason.
I understand that to be as ill prepared as these folks were, is to you, unfathomable. But while you are prepared for attackers at the level of the posted scene, are you ready for a dirty bomb to go off in your neighborhood? Perfect security is impossible to achieve. Just ask the Secret Service.
The more secure we are, the less freedom we have... You have increased your level of security to a level at which the inconveniences to freedom are acceptable to you.
i woul venture to say multiple bg are the worst night mare and armed with shotguns adds to it... In that scenario I would have probably come don the hall armed and then it depends upon lay out and positioning of everyone in the house... don't forget the wife is in there too... good reminder to always be prepared and to utlize the simple things to your advantage, reinforced dead bolts, alarm even individual ones on doors and windows... good simple things but 5 against one is probably the biggest fear most of us have if we are honest; in our home awakened from a dead sleep, worse... I am glad it was well for them and they are alive...
this scenario is exactly what I need to show the wife as the reasoning to get one of these suppressed AKs :image035: :banana:
well I can hope.....
50 rounds of P-90 5.7x28 will probably do it.
I don't spend any amount of time within 30 feet of a main entrance to my house. CC Gun is always with me. Artillery [so to speak] is close by if it comes to that. I'm not above shooting holes in the walls, ceiling or floor to get BGs in my house on another level intent on doing harm to me and mine. I know what qualifies as cover and concealment with my different firearms. Just hope I don't hit a water, electric or phone line (don't need the wife getting angry with me along with the other hassles).
Of course there is always "WWMMD?" [What Would MadMac Do?]
As long as breaking the door or breaking a window to get in woke me up.I'd have a good chance.I keep an AK with 60 rounds within arms length of where I sleep.Also the hallway makes a good funnel.
I don't know where you get the notion that my level of security provides an inconvenience to freedom. That is simply not true. I am not one of those who stay cooped up in my home afraid to go outside. I'm not one of those who refuse to answer my door to anyone who knocks. I answer my door all the time. I don't have ugly bars on my windows like some crack house either. I don't keep my drapes drawn all the time and rely on some video surveillance system to see outside. I have no video cameras what so ever. I do have some motion sensor, solar powered flood lights, but who doesn't. Looking at my house from the outside, you would have no idea it is fortified. My house is very easy to get out of, and back in as long as you have the combination to the dead bolt, or the house keys.
Originally Posted by oakchas
Like I said, we have complete freedom to do as we wish. We come and go as we please. The fact that I take an emergency "Go Bag" with me in the car does not limit my freedom in the least. In fact, I feel more comfortable doing things I may have not felt comfortable doing had I not chosen to be more security conscious. And with just a little advance preparation for example, I'm not worried about being out somewhere out of town if some sort of civil unrest were to suddenly crop up without warning in the area I happen to be visiting. I'm more at ease because of the few smart supplies and defensive tools I carry with me either on my person or in my vehicle. So If I want to go to some free concert in the park, I simply sling my "go bag" over my shoulder and my wife and I are there having a great time.
And if you must know if I'm prepared to deal with a "dirty bomb" going off in my neighborhood, the answer is yes. To an extent. I've been participating in domestic terrorism training and preparedness as part of my occupation since before 9/11. Complements of you, the U.S. taxpayer. Thanks for your support, btw. Since 9/11 and with the development of Dept. of Homeland Security, that training has gotten even more intense and broad. With federal grant money, our state bureau of EMS issued Level C personal protection gear to every EMS agency in the state. That includes protective coveralls, gloves, boots, full face gas masks with the appropriate cartridges for CNB protection along with chem/bio detection equipment and radiation dosimeters. I keep my gear at my residence. I also spent my own money to outfit my wife with the same protection. So yeah, we can evacuate our neighborhood or area if need be.
Working in the public safety occupation affords one with certain opportunities people from other walks of life does not even know exists. I chose to take maximum advantage of those opportunities long ago. I chose to seek out and partake in free training (paid by you) most of my co-workers have not even attended because I made the effort. Trips to Alabama to learn chem/bio training at the nations only "live agent" (anthrax) training facility, or New Mexico with the Dept. of Energy for terrorist bomb incident training, trips to Texas for terrorist threat and risk assessment training with the FBI all paid for, including airline, lodging and meals.
So, the bottom line, that knowledge and education has allowed me to live more at ease and have more freedom to enjoy life. Not less freedom. I'm not confined to living life "cooped up" in my fortress afraid to leave because I have knowledge on how to deal with situations and how to avoid them. I know how to perform threat assessments and how to spot threats and assess where the risks are for potential terrorist attack. Whenever I go to a strange city or location, say while on vacation, I perform a mini-threat assessment on the area where my wife and I will be staying. We get a map of the area and mark potential places to avoid or places to be more aware. For example, I don't just look for a nice museum to visit, I check out what structures are within a two or three block radius of the museum to see if there are any hard targets which might be of interest to a terrorist.
Knowledge is the key to survival. The more knowledge you have, the more freedom you have. Not less.
House design is unusual , and there are more than one "option" in which I can get quickly thru to another part of the house or outside the house, which gives the advantage to me. Plus, it's a secure bedroom with 2 exits, and let's just say... they better bring a lot more than 5 shotguns.
I understand what you're saying. OTOH, you have listed several inconveniences to freedom in your reply.
You "come and go as you please" after you've done a "risk assessment for hard targets" in the environs to which you are hoping to go.
You spent your own money to outfit your wife with the same level of protection from hazmat situations that you have.
You have spent your own time going to various courses in locations away from home.
Those are all activities which have cost you in time or in cash, and restricted your freedom to do other things with the time and/or the money.
I can certainly agree that knowledge increases survivability. But, gaining that knowledge does not come "free."
Those of us here who don't live in the states with no-permit-required-carry, have all accepted an inconvenience to our freedom in order to get our permits (the time and the money required to get the permit, if nothing else).
I know you probably enjoyed most of the learning experiences, so the "freedom" spent wasn't entirely costly. But there are other things you could have done with the time or the money.
We all pay "prices" to exercise our rights...
But really, this is a foolish argument... We are all glad to do it... and some are more happy than others to get more training, spend more money, etc., than others. No biggie.
George Murray said it best:
"for all the myths and shibboleths, one thing is true.
Free men are never equal, and equal men are never free."
I see your point, and concede it, to an extent. I just never looked at from the viewpoint of an inconvenience. But I guess one could. I would say the main thing would be how I choose to spend my money. I spend a lot of my disposable income in preparation for emergencies as opposed to buying a lot of toys.
Originally Posted by oakchas
While I don't have things like wave runners, and bass boats, $50,000 quad cab trucks or huge flat screen TV's, I don't consider it to be a hardship. I consider it to be insurance from future hardships. I'm not a survivalist in the sense that I want anything to do with an EOTWAWKI and living life like Denzel Washington in "The Book of Eli." But I do believe one should be sufficiently prepared for natural disasters, and civil emergencies. Stuff like an extended interruption of civil services like electricity, maybe food shortages and things of that nature.
In that case, I will live comfortably, and 90% of the people I know and hang around with will be struggling significantly. I believe times will get harder in the future, way before things get better. If they ever improve at all. It's going to be a long hard road before America truly prospers again. Too much debt, and no real action in putting a halt to it.
I think your George Murray quote is spot on in that regard.
BTW... it was way cool playing with anthrax in Level A suits and learning how bombs are made, and setting them off and leaning how to investigate and determine what was used. So, for me, that was no inconvenience. It was like a working vacation. Having to come back and teach others about it is the pain in the butt. But that's part of the deal, they train us so we can go back and train our respective departments.