Road Rage (Real Incident + Video)

This is a discussion on Road Rage (Real Incident + Video) within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think we're a society that believes that if something happens we will be presented as guilty unless proven innocent. Yes, having your own video ...

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Thread: Road Rage (Real Incident + Video)

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    I think we're a society that believes that if something happens we will be presented as guilty unless proven innocent.

    Yes, having your own video camera can work against you, but in that case you've done nothing more than busted yourself for doing something you perhaps shouldn't have.

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  3. #62
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    I think we're a society that believes that if something happens we will be presented as guilty unless proven innocent.

    Yes, having your own video camera can work against you, but in that case you've done nothing more than busted yourself for doing something you perhaps shouldn't have.
    Some people think that it is best to admit your guilt and throw yourself on the mercy of the court, but most lawyers will tell you that's a bad idea. Supplying the evidence that leads to your conviction is probably a bad idea also.

    If you are pulled over for speeding and the officer asks "Do you know how fast you were going sir?"

    Do you respond with "Yes officer, I immediately looked at my speedometer when I saw your lights in my mirror. I was doing 58 mph in a 35 mph speed zone."

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockBottom View Post
    Remember the Oklahoma pharmacist who got the life sentence for shooting the teen aged robber. According to the news reports that I've read, the main evidence that convicted him were his own statements to the police and the store video of the incident.
    Uh I don't think so. He was convicted because after he subdued the robber, he stopped, got a second firearm and shot him more. The video clearly shows it. The robber was no longer a threat and didn't need to be shot again. No matter what he said, the video clearly showed it.

  5. #64
    Member Array thephanatik's Avatar
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    Although its hard to tell since the camera is mounted in the middle of the car, to me it looks like he moved to the edge of his lane to pass the bicyclist. I'm in the same boat as oneshot, I don't get why bicyclists don't ride on sidewalks. It's not like they are used much anymore As a general rule of thumb, I try to put distance between idiots and myself, that's especially true when they are driving a 3500lb+ hunk of steel near me. I always have and always will ride my bike on the sidewalk when there is one and ride against traffic when there isn't. At least then I can see if someone is about to hit me, rather than being slammed into from behind. My parents lost a friend that way.

    In that situation, I would have merged into the left lane when it was safe. I also noticed when they stopped, he didn't leave enough room between him and the motorcyclist to get around him. Had he left enough room and had an ounce of common sense, he could have turned right into the midas parking lot when biker got off his bike and avoided being punched. Maybe it would take an extra minute to get where they are going, but its better than potentially getting a knife stuck in you. This is also not a situation where I would have shot someone, regardless of if its legal or not.
    Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation. - Rule #23 in the USMC rules for gunfighting.

  6. #65
    Member Array RockBottom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Uh I don't think so. He was convicted because after he subdued the robber, he stopped, got a second firearm and shot him more. The video clearly shows it. The robber was no longer a threat and didn't need to be shot again. No matter what he said, the video clearly showed it.
    What did I just say? The main evidence against him were his statements to the police and the store video of the incident. So, if he owned the pharmacy (and with two guns in it chances are good that he did), then he supplied the bulk of the evidence. Obviously, he shouldn't have grabbed a second gun and continued shooting the guy but he did pretty much supply the evidence that convicted him. That video pretty was hard to refute and the police didn't set up the camera.

    I'm not saying to run around and commit crimes. I'm just pointing out that with the abundance of video of every activity that we engage in and of course, the automatic "this call may be monitored for quality assurance" every time we call a business, as a society we have become so accustomed to being watched and listened to that we now just take it for granted and don't give it a second thought (until the recording is dragged out as evidence against us).

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    If he hit me, I would have accidentally moved my foot from the brake to the accelerator and ran his bike over

    This one does it for me.... I'd use his bike for a hood ornament..

    But as stated, it's best to avoid such stupid crap like that to begin with... While driving, treat others like they have a right to be there too, and avoid being a speed demon unnecessarily. Chances are better that you'll live a longer stress free life by doing so.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  8. #67
    Senior Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thephanatik View Post
    Although its hard to tell since the camera is mounted in the middle of the car, to me it looks like he moved to the edge of his lane to pass the bicyclist. I'm in the same boat as oneshot, I don't get why bicyclists don't ride on sidewalks. It's not like they are used much anymore As a general rule of thumb, I try to put distance between idiots and myself, that's especially true when they are driving a 3500lb+ hunk of steel near me. I always have and always will ride my bike on the sidewalk when there is one and ride against traffic when there isn't.
    Pardon my bluntness but the idiot is the one who rides the wrong way against traffic, thinking they're correct and in reality being a HAZARD to other cyclists riding the right way, with traffic:

    http://bicyclesafe.com/

    Riding the wrong way is illegal and you can get ticketed for it.

    HTH.

  9. #68
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerJ View Post
    Pardon my bluntness but the idiot is the one who rides the wrong way against traffic, thinking they're correct and in reality being a HAZARD to other cyclists riding the right way, with traffic:

    http://bicyclesafe.com/

    Riding the wrong way is illegal and you can get ticketed for it.

    HTH.
    Instead of riding against traffic, aren't you supposed to walk against traffic?

  10. #69
    Member Array Pinger's Avatar
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    I think lots of drivers (including me) have at some time or another inadvertently veered into a lane occupied by a motorcyclist. In my instance I didn't even know he was there (he was in my blind spot). I was trying to rid myself of a tailgater when I moved into the other lane. I apologized to the motorcyclist and that was that, nothing to write home about. I decided from then on I'd tick off rear-riding tailgaters instead, at least I'd be on the high ground in any altercation and I'd avoid inadvertently getting into a motorcyclist's lane.

    For this video, I think the car driver should have kept his mouth shut. I agree that the car driver should have made an effort to slow down for the bicyclist. But for the motorcyclist to come back and punch the guy...what if the car driver had a weapon? People in my city get shot that way.
    The first rule of self-defense is to avoid the situation. The second rule is Train and Prepare.

  11. #70
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinger View Post
    IPeople in my city get shot that way.
    The biker is very fortunate that he didn't get shot. The driver is too for that matter. This is why the two should have tried to avoid an altercation. I realize the biker was upset but he could have found a better way of displaying his frustration. Some people do not tolerate that kind of behavior regardless if they are in the right or wrong.

    Life is too short to get shot over a traffic violation. Some people can't let things go though. I was watching another road rage video last night that involved two bikes and a truck. The guy in the truck is crazy and ranting with a tire iron in his fist and the other guy is instigating him by saying things like; "I've got you on camera, you're going to jail." Really? As if the guy wasn't angry enough, you're going to antagonize him? Of course if the guy had attacked him with the tire iron, then he would've been shocked by the attack.

    Do you remember the end of "Kill Bill II"? Bill basically said, you know that I'm a murding ba****d and there are consequences to breaking the heart of a murdering ba****d. Exactly. Regardless of whether you're in the right or not, there are consequences to messing with bad men. Don't do it.

  12. #71
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Exclamation My 2 cents worth...

    Everyone was wrong, the biker for adding to the altercation, but mostly the driver of the car....

    The bicycle lane had ended, so he had the primary lane...

    The driver of the car was driving distracted...

    Did not use his side mirror, nor did he actually turn his head for a check of his blind spot (had he this would not have happened)...

    UN signaled lane change (he crossed the line and no blinky sound)...

    Failed to yield righaway...

    Totally blew his errors as an non issue...

    and yes I ride bike too, have been for over 40 years and it really over torques my bolts when people like this are allowed on the road with no repercutions...


    Now just don't bring up the morons that repeatedly blow stop signs and traffic lights...

    For those of you that have admitted to it.... A huge part of driving defensively is knowing what and who is around your vehicle at all times, and that means your blind spots too, so no excuse, turn and look!!!
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  13. #72
    New Member Array Ozone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon J View Post
    Everyone was wrong, the biker for adding to the altercation, but mostly the driver of the car....

    The bicycle lane had ended, so he had the primary lane...

    The driver of the car was driving distracted...

    Did not use his side mirror, nor did he actually turn his head for a check of his blind spot (had he this would not have happened)...

    UN signaled lane change (he crossed the line and no blinky sound)...

    Failed to yield righaway...

    Totally blew his errors as an non issue...

    and yes I ride bike too, have been for over 40 years and it really over torques my bolts when people like this are allowed on the road with no repercutions...


    Now just don't bring up the morons that repeatedly blow stop signs and traffic lights...

    For those of you that have admitted to it.... A huge part of driving defensively is knowing what and who is around your vehicle at all times, and that means your blind spots too, so no excuse, turn and look!!!
    I registered just so I can say my part. I'm the person driving the car in the video. Now that I look back at it I realized what I should have done correctly, and that was to slow down and wait for a proper gap the pass the bicyclist.

    As far as the video goes, I did shoulder check, there I knew the motorcyclist was there. I also saw the cyclist as soon as he joined traffic. I never crossed the line, some of you believe I did, but I know where my tires are and never crossed into his lane at all. As for indicating, I did not indicate as I figured that would scare the motorcyclist into thinking I was changing lanes and possibly cutting him off, plus I wasn't going to be changing lanes anyways.

    For the next time I will wind my window up as well as not open my mouth up after the incident is over. But I stand on the fact I never crossed into his lane, nor was I distracted by my driving. But in no way does it give him the right to punch me.

  14. #73
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozone View Post
    I registered just so I can say my part. I'm the person driving the car in the video. Now that I look back at it I realized what I should have done correctly, and that was to slow down and wait for a proper gap the pass the bicyclist.

    As far as the video goes, I did shoulder check, there I knew the motorcyclist was there. I also saw the cyclist as soon as he joined traffic. I never crossed the line, some of you believe I did, but I know where my tires are and never crossed into his lane at all. As for indicating, I did not indicate as I figured that would scare the motorcyclist into thinking I was changing lanes and possibly cutting him off, plus I wasn't going to be changing lanes anyways.

    For the next time I will wind my window up as well as not open my mouth up after the incident is over. But I stand on the fact I never crossed into his lane, nor was I distracted by my driving. But in no way does it give him the right to punch me.
    Really?? Seriously, this is the guy from the video??

    Giving you the benefit of the doubt;

    I agree that the biker did not have a right to punch you. If you go back and read my first post, I listed a whole set of things that the biker was wrong in doing.

    I'm glad that you didn't get seriously injured.

    Do you know what happened to the biker? Did he get a ticket? Did he go to jail for punching you?

  15. #74
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Well Ozone--welcome to DC forum--even if only for a brief stint--welcome!! If you stick around, you will find the forum here (and its members of course) a very healthy mix of respectful, yet a simultaneous desire to talk straight and openly about issues which relate to self-defense.

    The basic "world-view", if you will, of this forum, is that the world and its people is a wonderful place, but also a place where BAD things happen, ("Any time, any where" is the saying) and anything we can to to be better-prepared to protect our loved-ones and ourselves and sometimes others, we need to look at carefully.

    You will often see folks on this forum post real-life incidents of their own and then ask for constructive feedback from the other forum members. Sometimes, real-life incidents which involve others (like yourself) get posted, and then folks talk thru the incident and try to constructively pick-it-apart with an attitude of "what can we learn from this if it happens to me"

    Sometimes folks here get a bit "heated" over topics, but usually we are a pretty self-correcting bunch of folks--and if we get WAY out-of-line, the moderators step-in and remind us that we are adults

    So, welcome, and hope you decide to stick around and continue to learn--as you discovered, you can be apparently minding your own business and events can "go south" very rapidly and unexpectedly.

    Scott
    Last edited by Chaplain Scott; August 3rd, 2011 at 08:41 AM. Reason: typo...
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

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  16. #75
    Senior Member Array Spade115's Avatar
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    Weve talked about stuff like this on my motorcycle forum from the bikers perspective and a few of the answers varied from

    "Thats why I carry a Ball Peen Hammer"
    to
    "I would put a boot in the side of his door"

    I will however admite most motorcycle enthusiast (not to single any one out) are also CC'ers and know the risk of someone else carrying lby chance legally or not.

    I have yet to see the video but I can figure it out with the comments.

    It will also vary on the location of the incident because if you cut off a bike or swerve like that to a club member who might be in one of the larger clubs his first though might be "Rival club" and think your trying to take him out. I ride and I try to either stay away from traffic or ahead of traffic no cars around me means I can ride comfortably.
    When life gives you lemons, Open a lemonaid buisness.

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