Another reason to carry? Young guys with guns (Cops show)

This is a discussion on Another reason to carry? Young guys with guns (Cops show) within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; - I just saw a re-run of a Cops show where a pair of officers were patrolling in a medium-sized American city when they investigate ...

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Thread: Another reason to carry? Young guys with guns (Cops show)

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    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Another reason to carry? Young guys with guns (Cops show)

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    I just saw a re-run of a Cops show where a pair of officers were patrolling in a medium-sized American city when they investigate a suspicious vehicle in a parking lot. The two young men were backed into a spot & sitting in the front seats when the squad pulled up.

    They asked the guys what they were doing (waiting for a friend in the apartments) & why they were parked the way they were. They didn't seem evasive in their answers, but after one of the LEO's asked about criminal records & guns or drugs he must've picked up on something in the response or behavior - he asked them both to step out of the vehicle. After asking them to move to the back of their car the LEO's tell them to place their hands behind their heads for a pat-down. The driver then states matter of factly, "I have a gun." (!!!) "Do you have a CCW?" "No."

    The officer immediately handcuffs the suspect while admonishing the guy for lying in response to his question. He finds a compact single stack (8-round, polymer, undetermined model) in his waistband. The second suspect is cuffed by the partner (he was the passenger who apparently had no record) & he now admits that he too has a gun. (!!!!) The officer continues his rebuke of both suspects as his partner pulls a compact Glock (I thought the officer said it was a G25, but are there that many of 'em out there?) &...finds a bag of marijuana. "Didn't I ask you if you had drugs?" "I didn't respond", says the passenger. - cue curtain -


    I was actually surprised that they were both holding, as they didn't impress upon me that they were the type. This episode does show me that anyone... - anyone - that you happen upon could be holding, though I have to think that it is somewhat rare. If I saw these guys driving in another lane on the same roadway, I don't think I would have considered them as a possible gun threat.

    It does give me pause & further clarification of why it's necessary that I conduct myself appropriately when out & about. To stay alert & actively thinking about what's going on around me, & how I react to that which may perturb me. You never know who yo u might encounter.

    Stay safe, folks.
    Dennis1209 likes this.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Why would I care if they have guns?

    So the cops see a couple people sitting in a car, and because they're backed in there is reasonable cause to pull them out and pat them down? Sounds weak.

    They obviously don't know how to act around police, but it sounds like they were just being harassed and the cops got lucky.

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    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    sometimes bad....well, it just looks bad.

    other times ---who can tell till the situation progresses.
    SA is always with you and in the car it travels with you

    minimum 2 seconds to the front and the sides and that means the faster you are going the more attention you need to pay. and the rear needs checking on also.

    with the 3 mirrors set proper you can cover even the 'blind spot'.
    it has been said by many--do not push back, in fact...give ground to save face cause going home safe is the goal--
    not winning points on the streets with strangers.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

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    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    sometimes bad....well, it just looks bad.

    other times ---who can tell till the situation progresses.
    SA is always with you and in the car it travels with you

    minimum 2 seconds to the front and the sides and that means the faster you are going the more attention you need to pay. and the rear needs checking on also.

    with the 3 mirrors set proper you can cover even the 'blind spot'.
    it has been said by many--do not push back, in fact...give ground to save face cause going home safe is the goal--
    not winning points on the streets with strangers.
    What does this even mean?

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    Senior Member Array Inspector71's Avatar
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    I've often wondered about these made for TV cop reality shows myself. If these arrests go to court are the video used as evidence for or against the people arrested? Do the perps have to sign a waiver to allow these videos of them being arrested to be shown on TV? Wonder if they get paid by the producers? So many questions......

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    Why would I care if they have guns?
    So the cops see a couple people sitting in a car, and because they're backed in there is reasonable cause to pull them out and pat them down? Sounds weak.
    They obviously don't know how to act around police, but it sounds like they were just being harassed and the cops got lucky.


    Wow and your years of LE and criminal law background allowed you to come to this conclusion. Gee I wish I had your insight into the criminal mind.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    Why would I care if they have guns?

    So the cops see a couple people sitting in a car, and because they're backed in there is reasonable cause to pull them out and pat them down? Sounds weak.

    They obviously don't know how to act around police, but it sounds like they were just being harassed and the cops got lucky.
    My reason for sharing this was to show that even a jaded person such as myself can mis-judge the average Joe in public - perhaps allowing myself to believe that a situation cannot get so out of hand that I won't be able to adequately protect myself. Just sharing an insight.

    As to whether the LEO's had RAS to do what they did, I wasn't there.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    Why would I care if they have guns?

    So the cops see a couple people sitting in a car, and because they're backed in there is reasonable cause to pull them out and pat them down? Sounds weak.

    They obviously don't know how to act around police, but it sounds like they were just being harassed and the cops got lucky.
    Actually nothing wrong with it. It is called a Terry Stop. Nothing says cops can't come up to you and start asking you questions. Depending on how you answer their questions it may give cause for further investigation and allow them to develop probable cause. They also have cause if someone calls in a suspicious vehicle or suspicious persons call
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Why would I care if they have guns?
    So the cops see a couple people sitting in a car, and because they're backed in there is reasonable cause to pull them out and pat them down? Sounds weak.
    They obviously don't know how to act around police, but it sounds like they were just being harassed and the cops got lucky.


    Wow and your years of LE and criminal law background allowed you to come to this conclusion. Gee I wish I had your insight into the criminal mind.
    It has nothing to do with the criminal mind. It has everything to do with the mentality of cops.

    I was watching the Steven Stegal: Lawman show a couple years ago, and they were just cruising around the ghetto when all of the sudden they see two guys walking on a sidewalk, and they go crazy because it's somehow suspicious activity. They then proceed to hassle these guys who have done nothing wrong, and they find nothing on them.

    Why is it ok to do this in real life, and then have the effrontery to put it on tv?

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    I was watching the Steven Stegal: Lawman show a couple years ago

    Not busting on you but this ranks right up there with the Lethal Weapon movies. After a period of time on the job cops can develop a sense that something is wrong or just doesn't look right. INccwchris is correct.

    Based on the OP's statement they offer based their actions on Reasonable Suspicion which is defined as:

    Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard of proof in United States law that is less than probable cause, the legal standard for arrests and warrants, but more than an "inchoate and unparticularized suspicion or 'hunch' ";[1] it must be based on "specific and articulable facts", "taken together with rational inferences from those facts".[2] Police may briefly detain a person if they have reasonable suspicion that the person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; such a detention is known as a Terry stop. If police additionally have reasonable suspicion that a person so detained may be armed, they may "frisk" the person for weapons, but not for contraband like drugs. Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard,[3] in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; it depends upon the totality of circumstances, and can result from a combination of particular facts, even if each is individually innocuous.

    Reasonable suspicion can be based on the five senses or other things but the totality of the circumstances is the main thing.

    You know we preach and preach on here about situational awareness. We see someone who is not doing anything wrong they just dont look right so we jump from condition yellow to fuchia or dark black as opposed to light black with dark black highlights. This is the same thing with cops something is out of place not a blatant crime but out of place, but remember the officer in the end must be able to articulate the facts all the way through starting with reasonable suspicion, Terry Stop, search, arrest and so on.
    Last edited by tacman605; July 31st, 2011 at 09:10 AM.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    If you were carrying a gun illegally, and drugs, wouldn't you stuff them somewhere in the car if you saw a cruiser pull up on you? As added insurance, get out of the car and lock it. Pretty much removed the LEOs' probable cause to search the car IIRC. These guys weren't too bright.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Criminals in general are not real bright - ergo they get caught on fishing trips.

    "Am I under arrest?"

    "No you may not search my car."

    "Lawyer."

    It staggers the imagination.

    Of course there is always...Stop breaking the freaking law!!!

    And my personal favorite - LEO: "What are you doing out at this time of night [12:00a - 4:00a]?"
    Response: "Free, over 21, and a US Citizen. What are you doing out at this time of night?"
    Both my wife and I have been hit with that one multiple times while working graveyard shifts
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Senior Member Array canav844's Avatar
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    Remember everything you see on COPS is for entertainment not necessarily for accurate reporting, and a lot can hit the editing room floor in a hurry, so you can by no means assume you are seeing everything. Not to say it hasn't happened, but I've never seen an episode of cops follow through on court proceedings. TruTV had a TV show Speeders that they still re-air to fill programming gaps, but they stopped shooting new episodes after it got out how much was staged, to the point officers were calling friends asking them to come do something for the camera's then they'd sit on the side of the road for a 3 hour interview, if you watched the show you saw those 3 hours get cut into 5 minutes with an agenda and less than witty banter by a narrator. So when it starts out "I saw a cop do ___ on TV" you've got to immediately consider the premise that you're not seeing how things actually stand. Even more documentary style, non "reality" shows like 48 hours or the TLC "police women of" many cities are finding officers causing trouble by playing things up for the cameras, and being reprimanded internally, and making some cities not renew their contracts as a result of the change that takes place when TV crews are around.

    Oh and most people don't end up on COPS, or in handcuffs for making "bright" decisions. Was it on syndication that you saw this? I seem to remember watching a similar encounter some years ago, as COPS does make for good background noise while doing other things around the house.

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    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canav844 View Post
    ...Was it on syndication that you saw this? I seem to remember watching a similar encounter some years ago, as COPS does make for good background noise while doing other things around the house.
    Yeppers. On the G4 cable station.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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    Senior Member Array canav844's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkhmAsylm View Post
    Yeppers. On the G4 cable station.
    Driver had a white tshirt on and the cops was asking him what he needs to carry for if I remember right. I sorta seem to remember them as being under 21. But it's been years since I've seen it and may be running more than one encounter together.

    But yes your story does show a few points regardless of the LE discussion going on in this thread.
    • Anyone, anywhere, you may encounter someone carrying
    • Anyone you encounter during the day may be involved in less than honorable actions (my politically correct way of expanding beyond drug dealer)
    • Carrying doesn't make someone a threat, their actions do; if they saw you driving down the street they probably wouldn't care about you and have no reason to threaten you.


    Points I don't think should be lost in covering the topic of a Terry stop

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