Came about 3 seconds from leveling my Glock on a group of "thugs".....

Came about 3 seconds from leveling my Glock on a group of "thugs".....

This is a discussion on Came about 3 seconds from leveling my Glock on a group of "thugs"..... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This past July, went to a baseball game in downtown Detroit (hot summer Saturday night). They had a 2 hour rain delay so the game ...

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Thread: Came about 3 seconds from leveling my Glock on a group of "thugs".....

  1. #1
    Member Array cuckoo429's Avatar
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    Came about 3 seconds from leveling my Glock on a group of "thugs".....

    This past July, went to a baseball game in downtown Detroit (hot summer Saturday night). They had a 2 hour rain delay so the game didn't end until about 12AM. We were parked away from the stadium, but still within walking distance (it was just my wife and I). Anyways, when we got to the truck, we weren't able to turn down the road that connects directly to the freeway. Instead, we were supposed to go around these sets of sidestreets which we did to get back to the freeway. At this point, they were what appeared to be low income housing projects (for those of you from Detroit, they are just off Woodward Ave, north of Comerica Park and the freeway entrance). As we turned down the street, I began to get the uneasy feeling. I was not liking the surroundings at all. There were people all over the streets (looked like it was 12 noon in a mall), but it was after midnight. We came to a stop sign. I looked both ways, then suddenly this group of about 4 or 5 yoots (youths) about 17 or 18 years old crossed in front of me. They looked like the stereotypical "thugs", hats sidways, saggy pants, baggy clothes, etc. They stopped in the middle of the street and all turned and looked at me and they didn't move. It was the longest 5 seconds I can remember. I slowly opened my center console to grab my Glock 22 (unlawful to bring it in the stadium-so it was locked in the truck), placed it in my right hand near my lap with my left hand on the steering wheel. They couldn't see directly inside my truck (it's a 4x4 and sits higher than most), told my wife to watch their hands for weapons. If any of them start towards the truck, I was gunning the engine and taking out whoever was stupid enough not to move out of the way. If they started shooting, I would have no choice but to return fire. There were 2 other cars directly behind me (I think 2, at least 1...I could see the headlights). Luckily for me (and them), they turned and kept walking. They watched me the whole time until I turned and was out of sight. Looking back, I think I did the right thing, any thoughts?


  2. #2
    New Member Array Medic30's Avatar
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    Very apropriate. You didn't do anything to excite the situation, and where in a state of mental preparedness. Well Played sir.
    bwalker25 likes this.

  3. #3
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    Array Bark'n's Avatar
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    Can be an unnerving situation to say the least. I've had my Glock in my hand, and below eye level on several occasions. That's just being tactically sound. No real biggie.

    Very good thing to tell your wife to keep an eye on their hands and on the lookout for weapons. Always good to give your wife a task to perform instead of just sitting there looking like eye candy for the thugs to stare at. Also tactically sound. Two pair of eyes, scanning are always better than one pair. Especially when you, as the driver needs to be looking at several other places to ensure there wasn't a second group trying to sneak up and out flank you while you were focused on the group in front of you. Always keep checking the rear view and side mirrors (Protect your six). So, whenever your wife or someone else is with you, make sure they aren't just sitting there. Have your passenger focus on a specific focal point while you scan the area as well as potential escape routes. (Try not to look panicked with your head on a swivel and wide eyed. Keep focused, a determined look on your face and let your eyes check the mirrors).

    Lastly, where was your wife's gun? Should she not also have her own gun to protect your lives, or is that something that just the men are supposed to do? I mean it is both your LIVES at stake. Each of you only have one of those, and when it's gone, it's gone forever. Two armed defenders against 4 or 5 thugs are always better than one armed defender. And what if there was an additional group trying to sneak up and outflank you from behind or the side. It can quickly get overwhelming for one person to try and drive and shoot.

    Also, what if you were in a situation where you couldn't have just driven off? I would say the time is way overdue for you to sit down and have a frank discussion with your wife about her being armed as well. It's ridiculous for her not to be.

    I think you handled yourself very well, with a great outcome. We don't know your level of experience with guns in general and personal defense/protection specifically, so hopefully I provided some points to ponder you may not have thought about.

    But, you live in Detroit. A notoriously high crime area. Plus the economy of Michigan is in the tank. You can expect to have pockets of crime being on the rise throughout the state, but especially in urban areas. There's no reason for you to be the only armed person in your household.

    Basically, this was a pretty benign situation. But it could have been something completely different in a heartbeat. It could have turned into a carjacking, and with your wife there, a gang rape and double murder situation just as easily as it turned out to be nothing. Use these situations as a learning tool and prepare for the future, because you never know. Crime and death always comes at you out of the blue and without an appointment.

    Good job!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  4. #4
    Member Array cuckoo429's Avatar
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    I wasn't too concerned with not being able to drive away. I was the first car at the stop sign, no other traffic coming to my right or left, just a couple of cars behind me. Just these idiots in front of me on foot. I would have had no problem "gunning" the engine and getting the F%$# out of there ASAP if I had to.

    My wife is just starting to gain some experience with guns. She just applied for her CPL, but of course, the wait in my county is like 3 or 4 months. So she wasn't able to carry legally. For now, it was only me. We are getting her a Glock 19 for her own carry gun within the month. She has become quite proficient with the 9mm Glocks, and likes the G19 for her fit.

    I have been around guns practically all my life. I have been a hunter for many years, a graduate of the police academy back in 1992 (laid off, different career now), very proficient with shotguns, assault rifles and handguns. Currently working towards my instructor level training. I have a college degree in psychology and sociology and like to believe I have a clear understanding of human behavior.

  5. #5
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    Cool. It sounds like you are on top of things and both you and your wife seem to be pretty pragmatic individuals. Glad your wife is on board and going through the process of ccw and taking an interest in her defense. We are living in dangerous times and you never know when bad things are going to happen.

    Like I said, trouble comes out of the blue and rarely schedules an appointment.

    I'm glad you posted your situation here for discussion. Never let an opportunity pass to evaluate and discuss new or different tactics with others.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    I agree, handled very well, especially the part about giving your wife an active task. I will need to remember this for the future.

    Playing arm chair quarterback here, after the fact, there are only a couple of things I can think of to add. One, you mentioned using your vehicle to get away. Remember that it can also be a 4000+ lb projectile rather effectively. Two, were there any reasonable and viable options to avoid this particular neighborhood, such as parking in a different place that you could use in the future? Reading your experience reminded me of going to a baseball game in nearby Cleveland. The stadiums are notoriously 'down town' and lack sufficient official parking, leaving you to find garages in and around the city and it would be very easy to wind up in an undesirable location while trying to get to the highway as unfortunately, GPS units still don't have an "avoid ghetto" feature. There may not be much you can do in this regard.
    MotorCityGun likes this.

  7. #7
    Member Array cuckoo429's Avatar
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    Now I just have to convince the wife NOT to carry her gun in her purse. I've tried to explain that what happens during a purse snatching? Now they have your gun too. Trying to get her to carry IWB if possible. She, being a female, thinks it will be uncomfortable, she can't wear the clothes she likes, etc. We'll leave this discussion for another topic, though.

    Noway2: yes, it is hard to park downtown in Detroit. Like you in Cleveland, Detroit lacks an official stadium "parking lot" so you are forced to use any public lots in and around the stadium. They have a parking garage for the ballpark, but it's either filled up or they charge an arm and a leg to park there. I have been lucky a few times to park in these garages close to the stadium, but not always. Wasn't much I could do that night to avoid the "hood". It was the fastest way back to I-75 at that time.

  8. #8
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    I agree off-body carry is not the best or idea option. But don't let it be a deal breaker either. If she insists on purse carry, let it go. It's better for her to carry her gun than not.

    But do encourage her to explore on-body methods and at least make an effort to find a holster and carry system which will work for her as she becomes more comfortable and experienced with guns and ccw.

    My wife finds it extremely difficult carrying on body in a waist holster whether its IWB or OWB due to a debilitating line of duty injury. For years about all she would tolerate was purse carry.

    Lately, and since getting a Ruger LCP she has become quite comfortable pocket carrying that. And more often than not, it's carried as a BUG opting to still carry her SP-101 in a Coronado Leather gun purse or Maxpedition Remora, Lunada gearslinger or Fatboy versipack. But because of her injury, it's all about the weight of the gun and where it's positioned on the body which forces her to carry off-body. So we live with it. It is what it is.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #9
    Member Array cuckoo429's Avatar
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    Funny you mentioned an LCP. I use the LCP as my BUG. I picked one up last January. It's a great little gun with alot of snap. MY wife can't stand it. She says it's too small, and doesn't like the trigger pull. She likes the quicker action of the Glock. Hopefully we can come to an agreement on how she will carry.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    I think you played it very well by avoiding any confrontation and by keeping your Glock in your lap. Great spidey senses!
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Well-played on your part. My only comment is even if they did start shooting, returning fire may not be the best option. The best option may still be to high-tail it out of there. Vehicles don't stop bullets, they're coffins on wheels in a gunfight. I won't knock you for readying your weapon though, not at all. Overall I think you did the best things you could, and it's good to hear your wife is getting her license. Mine just got hers and we're exploring how best for her to carry it. Good luck!
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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    I'm glad you are ok. I don't know what it is but "thugs" seem to have this move in their code of conduct. I too have had them stop in front of me blocking a right of way street. I always kind of laugh because if they want to challenge me, they should probably not do it when I am in command of a 3000lb battering ram. No matter how tough they think they are, my car is tougher. Idiots.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    Cuckoo429, I'm assuming that you're from the 'burbs. I know this (Foxtown) vicinity and area of Detroit very well. I, too, frequent downtown during sporting events and theatre shows. Plus, I grew up in the city and graduated from Wayne State.

    This kind of behavior from these (young) ghetto thugs/dwellers is pretty typical and they tend to be nocturnal as the majority of them are unemployed. They know that after a Tigers game there will be some vehicles driving through their part of the 'hood, and they're looking for white suburbanites (like you and your wife) to scare and "threaten". It's a psychological game that gives them a sense of power and control. I guarantee you, this is not the first time that they have played this little game. It's pretty juvenille and stupid, however, it did have the desired affect on you and your wife to a certain degree. That's not to say that you did anything wrong, quite the contrary. However, in this case as you described it, the "flight" option in a (3 ton) vehicle with your windows up, doors locked and foot on the throttle is probably much better than a "fight" option where you would have to stop/slow down, roll down your window or open your door to take a shot. I know it was scary, but you were sitting "pretty" compared to where they were.

    Next time you go downtown for a game, if you can, try getting there a little earlier to find better parking spot that is closer or on the south (Greek town) side of the stadium where there are more people around. Also, if you're not familiar with the streets around this area, get familiar with them so that you can find a (more) well traveled route and avoid driving/directed through these types of 'hoods. It may take you longer, but it will be much safer.
    Bark'n likes this.

  14. #14
    Member Array sig225's Avatar
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    Welcome to the "D"

    You followed correct procedure, having you pistol in the ready position. I live east of Detoit, and always park in the Greektown parking deck, when I go to any Tiger game.
    The little thugs of the "D" have nothing better to do than hang-out and look for a chance to prey on someone, given the chance. Of course ... certain subjects are always cocky when in a group.
    I usually drive Jefferson Ave. when heading down for any type of game, and there are a couple of areas where you don't want to stop for any reason.
    Always evaluate the scenario.

    "click"

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    The whole problem with kids and teens and youth gangs is that you dare not do anything hostile to them. Why? Because as soon as you hurt someone, even unintentionally while trying to get away, it's an individual 'teen' that you harmed, and not a group or a mob. That teen is underage and you are seen as the bad guy because you can not likely back up your story of the mob. They're all bluster and bravado but run over someone's foot and they start crying and suddenly it's your fault, you're a bully. They used to do this to me riding a bike on a narrow bike trail. They'd wait for me and then step out and block the road and dare me to do anything. I ended up having to turn around and go back the way I came rather than contend with these hoodlums.

    So my thought is get out your phone camera or your vid cam and start videoing the scene before you consider drawing down or driving at them. Get the mob behavior and threat on video.

    If they see you videoing, they may even disperse, knowing what you're probably doing (documenting before acting).

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