Will a revolver cut it for self defense anymore??????? (scenarios)

This is a discussion on Will a revolver cut it for self defense anymore??????? (scenarios) within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Spidey2011 It's not 9mm, but took a lot of rounds: http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...last-past.html Certainly something to think about. If I owned a jewelry store ...

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Thread: Will a revolver cut it for self defense anymore??????? (scenarios)

  1. #76
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    It's not 9mm, but took a lot of rounds:
    Lead and diamonds: the Richmond jewelry store shootout [Blast from the Past]

    Certainly something to think about.
    If I owned a jewelry store I would have security with an AK available. So the argument is moot. This was a business robbery and an owner defending his livelihood. not a concealed carry individual defending his life.

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  3. #77
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    What are you doing on a bus in downtown Philly to begin with?
    Are not people who ride the bus in downdown Philly also afforded the right to bear arms?

  4. #78
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    Are not people who ride the bus in downdown Philly also afforded the right to bear arms?
    Ride with the animals, expect animalistic behavior. It is all about the situations you put yourself. If you go down to a bar district after dark and get attacked, did you really need to be down there? If you get on public transportation in an out of control city, should you have rethought just why you were there and maybe taken alternative transportation? The people on that bus are lucky that none of those morons could actually aim and shoot a weapon because your pitiful handgun cartridge would be no match for the 7.62X39 hi powered cartridge. My response has NOTHING to do with bearing arms and everything to do with not putting yourself in dangerous situations to begin with. It is a free country and you are free to move to a free state/city/county. If you don't, stop whining when you get attacked and cannot be legally armed due to the draconian government you pay taxes to support.

  5. #79
    Member Array oldcurmudgeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Ride with the animals, expect animalistic behavior. It is all about the situations you put yourself. If you go down to a bar district after dark and get attacked, did you really need to be down there? If you get on public transportation in an out of control city, should you have rethought just why you were there and maybe taken alternative transportation? The people on that bus are lucky that none of those morons could actually aim and shoot a weapon because your pitiful handgun cartridge would be no match for the 7.62X39 hi powered cartridge. My response has NOTHING to do with bearing arms and everything to do with not putting yourself in dangerous situations to begin with. It is a free country and you are free to move to a free state/city/county. If you don't, stop whining when you get attacked and cannot be legally armed due to the draconian government you pay taxes to support.
    The link, please.

    Certainly it matters as to how many hits.

    Lets assume for a minute there were no hits after 30 rounds.

    Would you then suggest he carry 50 rounds or would you suggest that he practice a little?

    As for it matters not how many hits....

    Give us a few links to people who took 15 hits from a .45 colt or a .44 mag.

    And a nicked finger is hardly a hit.

  6. #80
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldcurmudgeo View Post
    The link, please.

    Certainly it matters as to how many hits.

    Lets assume for a minute there were no hits after 30 rounds.

    Would you then suggest he carry 50 rounds or would you suggest that he practice a little?

    As for it matters not how many hits....

    Give us a few links to people who took 15 hits from a .45 colt or a .44 mag.

    And a nicked finger is hardly a hit.
    The link to what? The bus shooting? It is all over the news and this site. I think you may be addressing the wrong person..... my suggestion is watch where you go and who you go with, and a revolver is perfectly fine for CCW.

    Dramatic Video of Gunfight on Public Bus (Merged)

  7. #81
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Can you cite the article so we can see what the circumstances were? I am not big on hearsay.

    Detroit Officer Shot During Attempted Robbery - Detroit Local News Story - WDIV Detroit


    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    If I owned a jewelry store I would have security with an AK available. So the argument is moot. This was a business robbery and an owner defending his livelihood. not a concealed carry individual defending his life.
    A concealed carry individual could have just as easily been shopping inside the store. The fact is that there are some that WILL NOT back down even when confronted with an armed citizen. Its life or death for them just like it is for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Ride with the animals, expect animalistic behavior. It is all about the situations you put yourself. If you go down to a bar district after dark and get attacked, did you really need to be down there? If you get on public transportation in an out of control city, should you have rethought just why you were there and maybe taken alternative transportation? The people on that bus are lucky that none of those morons could actually aim and shoot a weapon because your pitiful handgun cartridge would be no match for the 7.62X39 hi powered cartridge. My response has NOTHING to do with bearing arms and everything to do with not putting yourself in dangerous situations to begin with. It is a free country and you are free to move to a free state/city/county. If you don't, stop whining when you get attacked and cannot be legally armed due to the draconian government you pay taxes to support.
    Not everyone has the luxury of a car or someone that can pick them up to and from.... maybe their place of work. Or some doesn't have the luxury of paying for the gas in their car. All walks of life takes the bus. I remember when I had to take the bus (for the 1st time in my life) because my truck had broken down and I needed a ride home from the Sears auto shop.
    Hoganbeg likes this.
    Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl, Model 65 357 Mag, and Sigma SW9VE 9mm

  8. #82
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    "Not everyone has the luxury of a car or someone that can pick them up to and from.... maybe their place of work. Or some doesn't have the luxury of paying for the gas in their car."

    Absolutely right. Besides its a public conveyance. Maybe if more decent folks rode the bus it would become safer and more civil. If all I were interested in was safety I would stay home all the time. There has to be a balance.

    As an aside, its not who shoots first (our the biggest most powerful round) that counts, its the first decisive hit. That means training! I'd rather face an untrained kid with an AK than a Navy Seal with a pistol.

    Also, the 7.62X39 mm cartridge is considered an intermediate, not high-powered cartridge.

  9. #83
    Member Array afojc's Avatar
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    I am planning on buying a .357 probably Ruger and can honestly say that if a group of "thugs" wants to make trouble, hitting one between the eyes with a hollow point will make the rest think twice about getting the same treatment.

  10. #84
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Shot placement is key. My guess from my past life and experience is that this officer performed the minimum standard firearm training as subscribed by his department. Which 8 out of 10 times is punching paper in a weaver stance for a few hours a month ( in our case). If he had taken the initiative to enroll in force on force and combat pistol classes on his own time or on his departments time if authorized he may have been better prepared for this situation. I am not going to armchair qb this one, I am just going to say that magazine capacity is no replacement for training and preparedness. Most of the guys I worked with in the past, and work with now have never even seen an incident on duty let alone off duty. My stance is I want a lightweight concealable handgun and I am not going to compromise discreteness for capacity. If I need multiple magazines then I should have brought a rifle. In my 20+ years I have had one incident at work ( in which I fired <5 shots and was carrying a hicap) and one incident as a civilian ( in which I fired < 5 shots and was carrying a hicap) . I think that was above the norm and consider myself unlucky. A few of the guys I worked with had 20+ years in and never had to fire a shot in anger, as most people here. But you do what you gotta do. I still stand by the premise that a revolver is more than adequate for self defense and anyone that thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.





    A concealed carry individual could have just as easily been shopping inside the store. The fact is that there are some that WILL NOT back down even when confronted with an armed citizen. Its life or death for them just like it is for us.
    Ok soe joe ccw hero wanabee decides to draw his weapon and enter the fray and takes an 870 blast from a panicked employee.... real smart. That is some quick thinking there. better to take cover and get in defensive mode and not draw your weapon in front of a bunch of armed panicked employees who have no clue if you are friend or foe and do not have the "combat experience" to make that determination in a high stress situation. But you do what you gotta do.


    Not everyone has the luxury of a car or someone that can pick them up to and from.... maybe their place of work. Or some doesn't have the luxury of paying for the gas in their car. All walks of life takes the bus. I remember when I had to take the bus (for the 1st time in my life) because my truck had broken down and I needed a ride home from the Sears auto shop.
    You need a luxury car to drive in the city? When I lived and worked in a city I usually just used my POV that I owned. I have NEVER taken a bus in my life. Walk, bike, or drive my car/motorcycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg
    Also, the 7.62X39 mm cartridge is considered an intermediate, not high-powered cartridge.
    Semantics. the 7.62X39 puts out over 2400fps.... if you want to argue what is high power and intermediate power than be my guest considering the 30.06 cartridge puts out only 500fps more in most cases. Bottom line is the 7.62X39 is much more effective than a handgun cartridge.
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  11. #85
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce21b View Post
    man,

    it seems like every story i read about a home-invasion, mugging, assault, robbery, rape, etc it is involving SEVERAL thugs........

    example:

    Seven teens arrested after older couple terrorized, beaten during home invasion | NewsOK.com

    as a matter of fact, im feeling underpowered with my Beretta 92 and three 15-round mags full of hollow points, and a Glock 26 for backup........

    im seriously considering either an AR-15 or a 12-gauge with a high-capacity tube.......

    its getting ridiculously violent out here, folks.......this stuff is happening every day in the news.....

    i say its time to up the firepower....anybody else?????

    Bruce
    Going back to the OP, quoted above.

    There's an old saying that goes something like this: "I use a handgun to get to my shotgun, and the shotgun to get to my rifle."

    In a home defense situation, that seems practical. If the homeowner in the link in the OP had opened the door with a handgun in hand, he might have been able to delay further entry. Giving him time to get to a shotty and/or a long gun.

    But, my first question is, WHY? WHY would you open a door to a knock, at 4:00 AM without some protection? Especially if you did not see anything looking through the peephole, or "looking outside" according to the report.

    Since you don't see anyone, it does no harm to yell through the door, "Whaadayawant?" If you get the reply "I've been in an accident and need to use your phone." The answer is simple, yell back, "Help is on the way, I've already called 911, and they should be here soon." Then get to a phone, in the bedroom, arm yourself, actually make the call, and wait.

    According to the police spokeswoman, in the link above, both of the Jetts went to the door. WHY? If I'm going to attend to a "bump in the night;" one that I have any inkling has any potential to be a real threat... especially after dark, I'm going armed, and my SO is armed in the bedroom.

    That just makes sense to me.

    As to "flash mob violence," gang muggings, gang assaults, gang rapes, etc. Carrying a long arm is not feasible. Having one in the car, not so much.

    In a group assault; chances are, one individual is not the target of the action, and it is least likely that I am a target. I'm going for cover, escape and evasion, and I'm headed to my car.

    If I were the target (again, least likely), I'm moving away from the threat, and distracting, as I'm able, and shooting at the leader.

    It is my opinion, in groups, at the onset of violent action, there is a leader. If one is able to stop the leader early, there is a fair chance to turn the rest. However, once the melee has begun, there is no leader anymore, it's every man acting in unison as a swarm against the target(s).

    Looking at the bus video, the two gunmen initially seem unsure and start to board the bus, get off and back on again... there is opportunity there. Their guns are drawn on entry. When they back off, shoot, do not waste bullets, aim to stop the threat. Scream at the driver to get outta here.

    The above actions are what I feel to be my best hope in any of the situations listed above... They might work, they might not.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  12. #86
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I am giving my opinion based upon my life experiences and what I see every day. I feel in 99% of situations a revolver would be perfectly adequate. Now if I were going to go into the city where thug mob attacks are prevalent or there is heavy violence, I would "dress to the occasion" and probably upgrade from the .357 LCR and one speedloader or strip to my G29 10+1 with a 20rd backup mag in the pocket. However I would also take precautions for my own safety and that of my family, by staying aware, looking for constant exit routes ( kind of like when riding a motorcycle) and not putting myself in a situation where I am in a location where the threat of violence is imminent. Call me paranoid but I truly believe that not putting yourself in a bad situation is half the battle. I think people focus too much on capacity than on preparation, training, and situational awareness.

  13. #87
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Revolver ok for almost all cases.

    I agree with those that have said that if you shoot the "leader" or the one closest to you, the rest of the cockroaches are going to scatter.
    I do wonder though about a situation like what just happened at the Wisconsin state fair where a mob of 75-100 were attacking people. If you got into that mess, and opened fire on the attackers, would the mob disperse, or would they just come at you harder. Even is you had a semi-auto with 2 spare 15 round mags you would be under armed.
    I think though that if you managed to drop the first eight or ten that advance on you the rest would come around to the conclusion that you were not going to back down. Hopefully you could get to your car and get the heck out of there or get yourself into a building where you had some protection.

  14. #88
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Ride with the animals, expect animalistic behavior. It is all about the situations you put yourself. If you go down to a bar district after dark and get attacked, did you really need to be down there? If you get on public transportation in an out of control city, should you have rethought just why you were there and maybe taken alternative transportation? The people on that bus are lucky that none of those morons could actually aim and shoot a weapon because your pitiful handgun cartridge would be no match for the 7.62X39 hi powered cartridge. My response has NOTHING to do with bearing arms and everything to do with not putting yourself in dangerous situations to begin with. It is a free country and you are free to move to a free state/city/county. If you don't, stop whining when you get attacked and cannot be legally armed due to the draconian government you pay taxes to support.

    OK so I'm someone you would probably consider an animal. I think it's more likely that you would get animalistic behaviour if you treat, or refer to someone as an animal. I took public transportaion for most of my life. The bus, and the subway. Mostly I saw young people who gave up their seats for the elderly, strangers assisting people who had become ill, Men giving up their seats for women once in a while. Mostly people minding their own business trying to make a living and get from point "A" to point "B". While there is a criminal element 99% of people just want to go home. As was the case on this bus I'm sure.

  15. #89
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    OK so I'm someone you would probably consider an animal. I think it's more likely that you would get animalistic behaviour if you treat, or refer to someone as an animal. I took public transportaion for most of my life. The bus, and the subway. Mostly I saw young people who gave up their seats for the elderly, strangers assisting people who had become ill, Men giving up their seats for women once in a while. Mostly people minding their own business trying to make a living and get from point "A" to point "B". While there is a criminal element 99% of people just want to go home. As was the case on this bus I'm sure.
    Incorrect. There were animals on that bus.

  16. #90
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Well, bottom line, I'd have to agree with AZCHEVY & say that most of the time a revolver would be entirely adequate.

    As a clarification:

    "Semantics. the 7.62X39 puts out over 2400fps.... if you want to argue what is high power and intermediate power than be my guest considering the 30.06 cartridge puts out only 500fps more in most cases. Bottom line is the 7.62X39 is much more effective than a handgun cartridge."

    Agreed, we could argue semantics, but I will admit I was off point there. What I meant to point out was at this range all your really gaining is penetration; admittedly good to have but it looked to me that the BGs were mostly shooting out the windows which means ones pitiful pistol round would be adequate if placed on target.

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