Scenario: Child Snatcher - Page 3

Scenario: Child Snatcher

This is a discussion on Scenario: Child Snatcher within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by rammerjammer Protect your children yes, but to me much of this is an overreaction. Not being a parent, I read the OPs ...

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Thread: Scenario: Child Snatcher

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    Protect your children yes, but to me much of this is an overreaction.

    Not being a parent, I read the OPs first post and thought more about being the single guy hurrying through a store and having some kid run into me. Most people in that situation aren't even remotely thinking about snatching up the child and taking off with them. They are thinking about the unattended child that just ran into them and frankly I would be ticked.

    Now if a parent comes up to just check on the situation politely and make sure we are both ok. Fine, move on and continue shopping.

    But anything confrontational from the parent is just plain overboard. It was their kid who caused the problem and they should be the most apologetic.
    I agree the parent need to be apoligizing for the child, and should at least try to keep them under control. That being said we don't live in a perfect world. If we did I wouldn't have to shop at Walmart. I could shop at Macys. I do find it odd that the other person picked up the child, thats where I go to condition yellow/orange.

    This reminds me of the woman that sued a furniture store because she tripped over a child running around in the store and hurt her knee. The problem was the jury awarded her a huge settlement and the kid she tripped over WAS HER OWN!
    And lawyers wonder why they get a bad rap!


  2. #32
    Member Array OperatorJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    This reminds me of the woman that sued a furniture store because she tripped over a child running around in the store and hurt her knee. The problem was the jury awarded her a huge settlement and the kid she tripped over WAS HER OWN!
    And lawyers wonder why they get a bad rap!
    Holy feces thats ridiculous!

  3. #33
    Member Array steelhawk's Avatar
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    A potential child snatching is a very difficult situation to deal with. Unless it is your child, or you know the child well, and the parents, you could easily do the wrong thing.

    I only have grandkids to deal with now, but I know what the situation is with each of them, so if I saw someone carrying one away, I would do what I could to stop it.

    Now, just because someone picked up one of my grandkids would not be reason enough to react extremely. I live in a community where people have lots of kids and there are a lot of adults here that love children dearly. I have been in the situation several times where a small child has bumped into me. I usually grab him or her just to make sure they don't get hurt.

  4. #34
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    so much for good naturedness--use to be id pick up a kid and ask--running away again? point to mommie, ok?
    though glancing around it was usually easy to pick her parents out of the crowd.

    now days i would not pick up one of them little monsters but to perhaps place it in a trash receptacle.

    -------------------

    and as for the OP talking strong to the stranger---

    you owe him an appology for your child running into him,
    it is your responsibility to control him.
    telling us that he was 'testing you'......well. you failed.

    often we let the emotions of the moment cloud our actions and we overlook how others percieve them. it may be difficult, but thinking 1st how our actions will be percieved
    may give you the moment needed to modify them.
    especially when it was a member of your family that started the event.

    and a gun is a tool......your ability to think is your primary weapon.
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  5. #35
    Member Array ktm rider's Avatar
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    I didn't read all the post but I'm sure others agree that me. I am drawing and, if the shot presents itself without putting my kid in danger I am firing also. You will NOT take my kid, period. I will deal with the consequences later. I don't really care about them at that point.

  6. #36
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    I'm probably repeating the thoughts of others, but grab and/or pick up one of my grandchildren as a stranger in a store...I will be all over you like 'white on rice'.
    You will not get a step away as I 'eyeball' my grandkids like a hawk when in public. If I sense a real crime in play, I will 'permanently' end your crime spree...nuff' said.
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  7. #37
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    ret---a kid runs into the metal on my belt with a solid thunk of his head--he is dazed and i will chose to ease him to the ground or pick him up so he does not collapse on the hard floor.

    ---it should not happen at all because id see him coming and protect my gun; but if he came around the corner fast, i can 'see' that happening.

    so either thing i did may look suspicious.
    the parent that lets its child run free created this bad situation.

    i am made to react under conditions that a responsible parent would not allow to occur.
    those parents should be apologizing to me rather than thinking i am a kid-napper.
    Arthritis sucks big-big
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  8. #38
    Member Array OperatorJ's Avatar
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    I am all for good natured people, I try to be one myself. I would have (and did) very quickly assess the situation to determine the other adults intentions. I deemed, in this case, that the guy did not intend to run off with my son. Had he, it would have ended very very badly for him. I am in pretty good shape 5k time hovers around 24 min w/a 15lb ruck), so I dont think he will be getting very far very quickly while carrying a child (as has been pointed out several times in this discussion). I did, once I mentally de-escalated my alertness level, apologize to the other adult and resume a general polite demeanor.

    I do not think that letting my son explore his surroundings, while under my protection and guidance, makes me a bad parent. He was not running up and down the aisles screaming (as we've all seen before). He was being a playful 4 year old and wasn't paying attention to where he was going. For that matter, the other adult male wasn't paying attention to where he was going either. In my situation, it was just as likely to happen to me, I was towards the end of the aisle, looking for something my wife had asked me to get (and as typical, I am lost in grocery stores), so I wasn't paying attention to anything but my son and what I was looking for. Logan was never more than 10-12 feet away from me, which is a distance that allows him some freedom to explore, but also allows me to keep him close by for protections sake.

    The situation just posed a thought to me I hadn't previously considered, and wanted to get the input, thoughts, and experience from those that have considered it, experienced it, or are just generally more sagely than myself. I welcome and appreciate all your input.

    J

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    ret---a kid runs into the metal on my belt with a solid thunk of his head--he is dazed and i will chose to ease him to the ground or pick him up so he does not collapse on the hard floor.

    ---it should not happen at all because id see him coming and protect my gun; but if he came around the corner fast, i can 'see' that happening.

    so either thing i did may look suspicious.
    the parent that lets its child run free created this bad situation.

    i am made to react under conditions that a responsible parent would not allow to occur.
    those parents should be apologizing to me rather than thinking i am a kid-napper.
    I'm sure that there's a difference between a kid running INTO an adult stranger...and the stranger grabbing on to a kid in the middle of an aisle without cause.OMO
    It's one of those 'had to be there' situations.
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  10. #40
    Member Array gruntingfrog's Avatar
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    I know I'm not the guy in your story, but this exact thing happened to me in my mid twenties. A kid running through a store rounded a corner and ran smack into me. I grabbed the child so he wouldn't bounce off, fall and get hurt and his feet did come off the ground. I'm sure if his mom had not seen the collision but only the grab, she may have thought I was trying to take her child. The key here is whether the person who (unintentionally?) picks up a stranger's child places the child back on his feet immediately as I did. I know the OP was presenting this as a "what would you do if someone snagged your kid in a store" but to anyone who said that there is "no reason" a stranger should ever pick up their kid, think again. In my case, this kid would have surely fallen back and hit his head on the floor if I hadn't.

    Seriously, you have to keep in mind that MOST people are good and there may very well be a reason for the action. It's what happens immediately after that matters. Don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario.
    Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.
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  11. #41
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Gee.... I saw a kid climbing the shelf behind momma one day.... and he fell , which would have been on his head and a bad fall for this kid. He was small. I was able to grab his leg.... and stop him in mid-air from hitting his head into the floor. Mom turns around, I'm holding on to this kids leg with him upside down in the air. I then explained to her , as I got the kid maneuvered around to where I could put him on his feet, what had occurred and suggested if he was a climber she might want to watch him a lot better.

    No one is going to grab your kid right in front of you. However, don't let them out of your sight or they will. I don't go into it a lot here, but I had a dog get out and he fought off a guy trying to kidnap a girl. My Ex was notoriously bad at watching the kids in a store ..... and when I got to her asked where my daughter was.... "oh, around the corner". She was no where around any corner, and I was worried , which my Ex thought was "dumb". So, I yelled for her, and I heard a bad yell for help (her voice) and raced in that direction. There I saw some guy holding onto my daughter's hand and dragging her towards the front door of the store.... while she's yelling "let me go , let me go you're not my father" , and " help daddy" as soon as she saw me. She was dragging her feet and fighting this guy all the way. I "ran" full blast towards the guy, which he released her and ran for it. I yelled to the people at the front door to stop him, and all they did was stand there and look stupid.

    The guy would have been out the door with her, all types of people around , and although she's yelling he was NOT her father, not one person paid any attention to it.

    So, I can see this both ways. But, before you ever pull a gun on someone, I suggest remember a few things......
    1. Be dang sure you are justified and know what's really going on .... don't let paranoia take over nor make assumptions about anything.

    2. Once you pull the trigger , you can't take it back.
    3. They may be armed as well, and if you shot at them and weren't justified, they ARE justified in shooting you.
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  12. #42
    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    No child or grandchild of mine will ever be forcefully abducted in my presence while I still have unfired ammo.

    Jim

  13. #43
    Member Array carverelli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKinNY View Post
    Walmart, Sears, Target all have a Code ADAM plan. Unlikely that somebody would try a grab and dash with a kid. Inside the store it is fair contained situtation. Store security will step especally you yelling. "Stop that man" or "help somebody grabbed my kid" If the guy happened to make it to the door he is catching rounds in the back. Will take my chances with the 12.
    if hes got my kid in his arms, I'm shooting his legs out from underneath him. Hard to run very fast then. And when I catch him he can chew on my knuckles till I'm out of breath

  14. #44
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    I've never run into so many Rob Leatham's in my life before than here on this board.

    The last thing I want to do is shoot at a guy who has my 10 year old granddaughter in his arms. Especially since there are oh, about a hundred other options before going to the gun. Rest assured, if I see her being snatched, they aren't going to get away with it, but shooting first is not an option. It may come to that, but certainly not the first thing right out of the gate.

    It's actually quite amusing to read some of the responses from people who likely shoot a couple hundred rounds a year instead of a couple hundred rounds a week, 52 weeks a year.

    The thought of having to explain to the police, my wife, my daughter and son-in-law how I accidentally shot my granddaughter in the dome while trying to stop her from being abducted just doesn't sit well with me.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    In todays society it would be dangerous for any adult male to touch any child whose parents they did not know well. Even if your intentions are well meaning public perception will probably be against you.

    Michael

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