Neighborhood Armed Robbery

Neighborhood Armed Robbery

This is a discussion on Neighborhood Armed Robbery within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What would I have done? Two weeks ago in my neighborhood, just after dark, a 20-year old man armed with a knife approached a female ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array 9mmtimes3's Avatar
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    Neighborhood Armed Robbery

    What would I have done? Two weeks ago in my neighborhood, just after dark, a 20-year old man armed with a knife approached a female jogger and demanded her gold necklace and ring. She gave in to his demands and was unharmed.

    My neighborhood is regarded as upper middle class. It has sidewalks that run behind all of the homes, as well as underground tunnels to avoid kids having to cross the busiest streets. This attack took place in one of those tunnels, which span about 50 feet.

    Anyway, I'm interested to know how something like this would shake out in court if this guy approached someone with a CC permit that dropped him.

    #1 If you are a jogger is it assumed that you could have gotten away without conflict?

    #2 With zero eye witness acccounts, isn't it just your word against his that a knife was pulled before he was shot? Obviously a 9-inch blade would make it obvious, but it was rumored that it was a hunting knife, which means it could be defended by stating that the knife never left his pocket and wasn't being carried to cause human injury.


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    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    I would think the knife would be next to his body so it should be clear to investigators what happened. If the knife is still in his pocket then you might have a tougher time articulating your reasons for putting a leak in the guy. If he survived he would claim that he was only jogging and you Attacked him.
    Last edited by Rotorblade; August 15th, 2011 at 09:37 AM. Reason: I'm stupid
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    I would think the knife would be next to his body so it should be clear to investigators what happened. If the knife is still in his pocket then you might have a tougher time articulating your reasons for putting a leak in the guy. If he survived he would claim that he was only jogging and you Attacked him.
    Yeah, it would be hard to convince LE a "harmless jogger" vis: pants.jpg Actually attacked you with a 9" knife, you prolly just carry that as a "throw away" so's you can make all your tunnel shootings look legit.
    Rats!
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    I suppose

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    Senior Member Array Inspector71's Avatar
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    Never jog in tunnels where you can be trapped.
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    mkh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    I would think the knife would be next to his body so it should be clear to investigators what happened. If the knife is still in his pocket then you might have a tougher time articulating your reasons for putting a leak in the guy. If he survived he would claim that he was only jogging and you Attacked him.
    Just make sure he doesn't survive. Dead men can't contradict your version of the story.

    I'll bet firing you weapon in a tunnel like that would screw up your hearing for a while.

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    #2 With zero eye witness acccounts, isn't it just your word against his that a knife was pulled before he was shot? Obviously a 9-inch blade would make it obvious, but it was rumored that it was a hunting knife, which means it could be defended by stating that the knife never left his pocket and wasn't being carried to cause human injury.
    Since they would be prying the knife from his "cold dead hand", I think it would be quite obvious self defense was justified.
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    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mmtimes3 View Post
    What would I have done? Two weeks ago in my neighborhood, just after dark, a 20-year old man armed with a knife approached a female jogger and demanded her gold necklace and ring. She gave in to his demands and was unharmed.

    My neighborhood is regarded as upper middle class. It has sidewalks that run behind all of the homes, as well as underground tunnels to avoid kids having to cross the busiest streets. This attack took place in one of those tunnels, which span about 50 feet.

    Anyway, I'm interested to know how something like this would shake out in court if this guy approached someone with a CC permit that dropped him.

    #1 If you are a jogger is it assumed that you could have gotten away without conflict?

    #2 With zero eye witness acccounts, isn't it just your word against his that a knife was pulled before he was shot? Obviously a 9-inch blade would make it obvious, but it was rumored that it was a hunting knife, which means it could be defended by stating that the knife never left his pocket and wasn't being carried to cause human injury.
    Dead men tell no tails...but the evidence does. The knife would be found next to the body, not concealed in the perp's clothing. As long as you do no more than kick the knife away from the ventilated perp (to remove the possibility of him still trying to use it), the evidence would also show that you likely did not pull it from his clothing. Besides, I'ma gonna guess that he'll already have a rap sheet to help support your version of the events.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    #1 If you are a jogger is it assumed that you could have gotten away without conflict?
    Would depend on how far away from you he was when you realized he was a danger to you. If he was far enough away running may be an option. If he was within a few feet I doubt running or a gun would be much help.

    Michael

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    Member Array ConcealedG30's Avatar
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    Empty your magazine into his cold lifeless body and when they ask why you shot him 14 times tell them... I only had one mag.

    I believe we shouldn't give them a second chance to harm a less prepared potential victim.
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mmtimes3
    #1 If you are a jogger is it assumed that you could have gotten away without conflict?

    #2 With zero eye witness acccounts, isn't it just your word against his that a knife was pulled before he was shot? Obviously a 9-inch blade would make it obvious, but it was rumored that it was a hunting knife, which means it could be defended by stating that the knife never left his pocket and wasn't being carried to cause human injury.
    #1 Any experience chasing criminal "rabbits" would illustrate the fallacy of this assumption.

    #2 The outcome of any involvement in a conflict with a criminal, lacking witnesses, will rely on the evidence and the credibility of those involved.
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    The only way I could see a problem is if the knife welding mugger is from the local community. If the armed Jogger wearing Jogging shoes, and appropriate clothing Vs. Armed guy wearing street clothes... even better if he's wearing street cred clothes.

    The key is proximity... The jogger is in the proximity of his community. Is the knife welder? The Jogger had a legitimate reason for being at that place, in that time. Why was the other guy there? As an investigator, this would be a ground ball.

    Spuk!

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    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    #1 - No
    #2 - While you are debating in your head whether you will be sued or found guilty of a bad shoot, the mugger just killed you.
    If you truly feel your life is threatened, shoot to stop the threat....and stop once the threat is down. Dial 911 and report what just happened. Do not touch the evidence unless you want to be indicted for murder. Call your attorney, and when the police arrive give them a simple account of what happened and then tell them you would prefer not to say anything more until you have had a chance to speak with your attorney.

    Always remember that in order to have legal issues in the aftermath.....you have to be the one who survives.
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    Stay our of tunnels...that's a heck of an idea anyway. Which community would want to build 'robbery tunnels' for the neighbors?
    Stay armed...stay out of places that are dark and isolated...stay safe!
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    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    If I were to jog in tunnels, I'd jog with earmuffs on.
    Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME

    Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.

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    Guys, you do realize that if you personally are ever involved in a shooting, there's no reason to assume your jury won't see these posts?

    Good luck with that.

    The victim set herself up. A woman jogging after dark in a tunnel wearing gold jewelry????? Nonetheless, if she had been armed, she would have been justified. Unless, of course, she empties her mag into the perp while he's on the ground. Or tries to move the body. Or the knife.

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