Blew my SA down my legg...or did I???

This is a discussion on Blew my SA down my legg...or did I??? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well guys...This thread has been more of an "eye opener" to me than I ever expected. For all who suggested "cut the freakin bushes" , ...

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Thread: Blew my SA down my legg...or did I???

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Well guys...This thread has been more of an "eye opener" to me than I ever expected. For all who suggested "cut the freakin bushes", I've taken care of that situation and will strive to prevent the overgrowth in the future. I've also discussed the "communications" issue with my wife, even to the point of discussing "Flash Mobs" (albeit having nothing to do with this scenario) and the proper reactions in the event she is caught up in that type of situation either with or without me being present.

    For those who questioned my response and/or my training, I respect your opinions to a point. Afterall, the purpose of this posting was to generate crossfeed in addition to the things I recognized myself as needing work. Training is something that is ongoing with me, from my previous military, to combat (Vietnam), to professional instructors/schools, to LE friends in the community, to reading, to attending lectures given by professional and well known individuals, in additon to my own personal efforts to train responsively and realistically. Although I am reaching "Senior Adult" status (63), I strive to be continually alert and improve upon my abilities and skills, knowing that my efforts could mean the difference in the survival of myself and/or my family.

    For those that were quick to condemn my actions, rather than being condescending in your posts, although condescending is fine, why wouldn't you additionally explain in your post how YOU would react in a similar situation. I would enjoy reading your rationale there. I hope your MINDSET, TACTICS, SKILL, and GEAR support your actions and insure that you and your family will have the greatest probability of surviving a life threatening encounter.

    Regardless, we are all individuals, an as individuals we may not always agree, may not always have the same response in a scenario or real life...but one thing we do accomplish is generating the "thought" process and discussing MINDSET and why we do the things we do. I'm sure I will have an opportunity to reply to posts in the future, made by some of my harshest critics, and perhaps I will either agree or disagree with your posting. Please don't take offense if I disagree!!!

    Be safe and TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN...
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

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  3. #47
    Senior Member Array xsigma40cal's Avatar
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    Emphasis on #2 of that list.

  4. #48
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    I live in Tucson, AZ and have a fenced in back yard that opens towards the open desert with a wash and another development about 100 yards away. I do believe that I will also be startled by someone entering my back yard without my permission. Although the poor dummy wont be talking ..... he will be screaming...... as I have done a little landscaping with some very vigilent cactus from inch to inch of the fence. If the intruder can get through and still have the gumption for a scrap, then he will have to deal with some thunder and and lead.
    george, US Army, Ret. 1978 - 2011 (Yeah, another old fart with "old soldiers disease")

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    First Sgt: You ask a fair question. Worth a careful reply.

    why wouldn't you additionally explain in your post how YOU would react in a similar situation.
    Pretty sure I did, but to reiterate: I'd turn and look first. Depending on how startled I was, I can see taking a somewhat defensive posture - possibly ducking down a bit as I turn and maybe extending an arm in the direction of the intruder. These are things I practice in my FoF training and they are instinctive.

    The firearm is a very serious weapon and is your go-to measure in the face of a lethal threat. An unexpected person, voice, etc., does not seem to rise to that definition in the described situation. You should be able to turn and look in less than a second.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  6. #50
    Member Array Tigers's Avatar
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    He's on your property, behind a fence, in my mind there is a 50-50 chance that he shouldn't be there. If he is in that 50%, you better be willing to come out swinging especially when loved ones lives could be on the line.

    Where I am from, everything sgt did was fully legal and in my mind justified.

  7. #51
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    I guess I'm glad I live in a place where I don't feel the need to grab a gun when someone says hello...

    Let's see, who has come in my yard without announcing himself: Neighbor with small child to look at the horses, farrier, UPS, drunk teen son of a neighbor...I'd probably have a hard time keeping a farrier if I went for a gun every time he entered the back forty.

  8. #52
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    I love how calm you guys all are when someone is on your property in a place where they shouldn't be expected to be without announcing themselves.

    Think about it. It's just the same as walking into your living room and someone says something to you from behind you when they aren't supposed to be there. We're not talking about the "back forty" here, we're talking about a guy who just walked out of his home and hears someone right behind him. I'd have done the same thing, except I'd probably have to change my pants afterward too...
    357and40 likes this.

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    1st Sarge,

    I think you did well... I understand... "How ya doin'?" can start an "interview" in face to face situations... A male voice behind me... I might have startled as well... Especially in a fenced in yard, from behind bushes, even with no intent of "stealth."

    Whoa...

    I agree with your number 2 in your OP... and you said you'd discussed that... so kudos for that... If your wife had said "HI" that would have been sufficient... to warn you.

    Acting as a team is a great thing... One's SA is down a bit, the other picks up the slack... and there can be subtle communications between the two of you... that let the other know to be wary, without raising hackles..
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    First Sgt: You ask a fair question. Worth a careful reply.



    Pretty sure I did, but to reiterate: I'd turn and look first. Depending on how startled I was, I can see taking a somewhat defensive posture - possibly ducking down a bit as I turn and maybe extending an arm in the direction of the intruder. These are things I practice in my FoF training and they are instinctive.

    The firearm is a very serious weapon and is your go-to measure in the face of a lethal threat. An unexpected person, voice, etc., does not seem to rise to that definition in the described situation. You should be able to turn and look in less than a second.
    A BG is able to shoot you in less than a second too... What if turning & looking costs you the extra split second between life & death?

    Sure, Situational Awareness is the key in this. As he & I proved, sometimes we blow our SA... In those cases, that split second may be the only thing that matters.
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
    - Roy Batty

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddy View Post
    Wow, some one says hows it going from behind you and you start to draw your weapon. I would say you need to work on more they situational awareness. You really need to ratchet down a notch or two unless of course you are in a war zone. Just because someone surprises you doesn't give you the right or need to act like that. The meter man should have called the cops to get your actions on record in case you do more of this crazy stuff and protect himself.
    TWO totally ridiculous statements IMO. Around my office that's usually how a pan handler starts of a plea for money, and it's a fact that if they get turned down, some have been known to become violent. I think the man reacted to a surprising situation that caught him completely off guard. I also believe that, we've all at one point or another been totally surprised by something unexpected and reacted in a less than perfect manner, either defensively, or offensively. What you and I and everyone else should reflect on from the gent's ordeal is... How would I have reacted to the exact same situation, and take precautions to avoid it. If you say "Oh I'd be as cool as a glass of Luzianne iced tea, and I'd never do something like that" I say, sure you would...
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  12. #56
    ITW
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    Muddy makes a good point that's not the least bit ridiculous, and is or should be covered in any CCW class worth its salt.

    If you draw down on somebody for no apparent reason, then you've potentially got a legal problem.

    In my view and like a few others have mentioned, it's a mistake to adopt a public mindset that everybody is potentially out to do you harm and you must be ready or present your firearm against any possible threat. For one thing this is unrealistic. Not only is it impossible for you to be equipped for every possible scenario, failing to exercise patience and good judgment can have detrimental consequences as well. For another it can potentially lead to illegal conduct on ones part that could jeopardize ones ability to carry in the first place.

    Instead of allowing ones CCW to give one a false sense of security, my feeling is the appropriate mindset is that it is only a last resort. Realizing of course that the best weapon one possesses is their brain and not their CCW.

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ITW View Post
    Muddy makes a good point that's not the least bit ridiculous, and is or should be covered in any CCW class worth its salt.

    If you draw down on somebody for no apparent reason, then you've potentially got a legal problem.

    In my view and like a few others have mentioned, it's a mistake to adopt a public mindset that everybody is potentially out to do you harm and you must be ready or present your firearm against any possible threat. For one thing this is unrealistic. Not only is it impossible for you to be equipped for every possible scenario, failing to exercise patience and good judgment can have detrimental consequences as well. For another it can potentially lead to illegal conduct on ones part that could jeopardize ones ability to carry in the first place.

    Instead of allowing ones CCW to give one a false sense of security, or a license to mimic ones favorite gunslinging Hollywood movie star, my feeling is the appropriate mindset is that it is only a last resort. Realizing of course that the best weapon one possesses is their brain and not their CCW.
    Come on... have we gotta put it in big blinking lights? This was on PRIVATE property, where there is an expectation of security. If he had done this at Walmart or on the street, then sure, he would be wrong and in need of training. This was essentially on his front step, there was someone behind him that shouldn't have been there, at least without announcing himself.

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Lets be clear, there was no draw.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  15. #59
    ITW
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Come on... have we gotta put it in big blinking lights? This was on PRIVATE property, where there is an expectation of security. If he had done this at Walmart or on the street, then sure, he would be wrong and in need of training. This was essentially on his front step, there was someone behind him that shouldn't have been there, at least without announcing himself.
    In South Carolina the law makes no distinction between public or private property, in regards to the use of deadly force or the threat of deadly force.

    It only requires that you be somewhere you have the right to be, and that you are acting legally. The only exception would be in regards to the Castle law which involves the forcible entry into ones home/vehicle.

    Otherwise it requires a threat to be present before you point or present your firearm towards another person.

    Therefore, if someone startles you whether on your property or not, you do not have the legal right to threaten them with deadly force. Or even to present your firearm with threatening intent.

    I knew my post would probably generate some controversy among a few. Since it wasn't filled with an appropriate amount of internet bluster.

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Come on... have we gotta put it in big blinking lights? This was on PRIVATE property, where there is an expectation of security. If he had done this at Walmart or on the street, then sure, he would be wrong and in need of training. This was essentially on his front step, there was someone behind him that shouldn't have been there, at least without announcing himself.
    Well first off, this was a meter reader and I suppose if you want utilities at your house, then he has a right to be there. Secondly, he did announce himself...from the original post....a male voice comes from behind me saying "How's it going?!?"...

    What type of announcement was he supposed to make? "I'm reading meters. Don't shoot me!!"?

    I'm not saying that the OP overreacted but if you don't want people reading water meters on your property, then dig a well.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

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