Right to remain silent - Page 2

Right to remain silent

This is a discussion on Right to remain silent within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by BugDude There have been many instances in my life where I had the right to remain silent, just not the ability. After ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array DoctorBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    There have been many instances in my life where I had the right to remain silent, just not the ability. After many years of being married, hopefully I have finally managed to learn that particular skill and can employ it if I ever find myself in a SD situation when the adrenaline is pumping.
    Never answer the question: "does this dress make me look fat?"

    This is what I'm going with:

    Assess the scene. If it is safe, holster your gun

    Call 911 - it is important that you be the first complainant
    Request Police assistance and an ambulance. Say "someone has been seriously hurt" Don't go into detail. The operator will try to get you to keep talking and ask all sorts of stupid questions. Don't answer them, you are being recorded. Give your location and repeat the need for police and an ambulance. Do not go into detail. Do not go near the BG; you have no duty to rescue and he might be faking or only wounded.
    When the police arrive make sure you have your hands in a visible safe position and that they are EMPTY. Do not hold the phone or anything else in your hand.

    Point out the BG and say
    "That man (woman, dog,etc) attacked me"
    "I will sign a complaint"
    "These people are witnesses"
    " His knife/gun/baseball bat is 'there'" (point out the forensic evidence)
    "You will have my full cooperation when I have had a chance to calm down and speak to my attorney."
    Optional:
    "My chest hurts, I'm going to vomit, I $**t my pants, I need to go to the hospital..."

    Tell them where your gun is and let them lift it from your holster - do not draw it yourself.
    THEN SHUT UP!! Except to give ID info and tell them the name of your attorney.
    Be respectful and pleasant.

    Consider joining the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    Never answer the question: "does this dress make me look fat?"
    I can tell you how not to answer it...never say, "No, your 40 year love affair with ice cream makes you look fat."
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  3. #18
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    Sorry but I just dont believe that clamming up is the best idea. I'm not suggesting anyone make a detailed statement. But the police will need a starting place for their investigation. The things they will be looking for is basic information. Did you fire your gun? Do you know this person? how do you know them? Was there anyone else here? Basic pedigree information. Let them do their job. If at any time the conversation becomes uncomfortable... ask to hold off untill you have spoken to an attorney.

    Self defense is an affermative defense. Meaning the burden of proof is on the shooter, and not on the state as is with any other criminal case. In sum and substance you must admit your actions in order to claim self defense. IMO (and I'm no lawyer) you may eliminate the justification of self defense at the scene, and it must be re-introduced later by your lawyer. This can be handled one of two ways by the police. If the forensic/proximity investigation is strong enough, after conferring with a states attorney it may be decided to not make a summary arrest. Or the police and states attorney may decide to arrest and charge with some degree of assault/murder to err on the side of caution. (they can always non pros, or dismiss later) But the damage will have been done. You have a felony record, and may have to spend some time in jail.

    As I have experienced this kind of an investigation from both sides I personally attest that it isnt as big a deal as made out to be. As I've said before at least 75% of the investigation is forensics. The forensic techs/crime scene techs. cant find exculpatory evidence if they dont know where to look (CLUE). The strongest physical evidence at any scene is collected when the scene is pristine. The more and better evidence found... the closer to the truth.

    Spuk!
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  4. #19
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    view these and then you can decide how wise it is to be talking to the cops
    Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1 - YouTube
    Don't Talk to Cops, Part 2 - YouTube
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  5. #20
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    I'm in agreement with Spuk, do not totally clam up, that is a mistake. But, do not start running your mouth either. I'd simply say, yes, I'm the shooter, there is nobody else involved and I will give you a detailed statement after I've had legal council.
    Even when involved in shootings as an LEO, this is the way I've done it and its worked out just fine.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  6. #21
    Member Array natimage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I'm in agreement with Spuk, do not totally clam up, that is a mistake. But, do not start running your mouth either. I'd simply say, yes, I'm the shooter, there is nobody else involved and I will give you a detailed statement after I've had legal council.
    Even when involved in shootings as an LEO, this is the way I've done it and its worked out just fine.
    Just to clarify because little things like this I've heard can make a big difference...would you say "Yes I'm the shooter" or "Yes I'm the victim" isn't it all about getting your name in the victim box on the police report?
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  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    The circumstances of the incident rather than any moniker that you place on yourself will determine you as the victim.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by natimage View Post
    Just to clarify because little things like this I've heard can make a big difference...would you say "Yes I'm the shooter" or "Yes I'm the victim" isn't it all about getting your name in the victim box on the police report?
    I don't think that matters a hill of beans Guantes phrased it better though.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I'm in agreement with Spuk, do not totally clam up, that is a mistake. But, do not start running your mouth either. I'd simply say, yes, I'm the shooter, there is nobody else involved and I will give you a detailed statement after I've had legal council.
    Even when involved in shootings as an LEO, this is the way I've done it and its worked out just fine.
    For the most part, I agree with you. My handgun instructor said not to talk to the police. I've watched the "Don't Talk To The Police" videos. While I don't believe in being "Chatty Cathy", if the first words you utter are "I want my lawyer", my response as a cop would be "I'll be happy to let you make that call, sir. Why do you feel you need an attorney?"
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  10. #25
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    From the comfort of my office chair with zero stress, it's easy to know what to do or say. Frankly, I have no idea if I could maintain my composure as I envision. Hopefully, my limited time as a peace officer, and other life experiences will keep me focussed, articulate and relatively quiet.
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  11. #26
    Member Array oldcurmudgeo's Avatar
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    I would go at it entirely differently.

    I would say to the cops: "Guys, I trust you guys to treat me fairly but as you know civil law and criminal law are two entirely different things and because they are, I want my lawyer to help me protect myself against civil lawsuits. So knowing that whatever I say here can be introduced into a civil case, I prefer to wait until my attorney arrives to go into any detail other than the basics. And for right now, the basics are that this guy had every intention of killing me and forced me to defend myself."

    "I want to sign a complaint against him so that when he gets out of the hospital, you can do your thing with him."

    Even if he looks terminal, by the above statement you make it clear that you expect him to live and be prosecuted.

    At this point it is clear that I am not anti-cop, a smart ass, but worried about things other than being prosecuted as a criminal.

    Also, since it is probably being recorded and certainly documented in some way, it does not look to some third party who was not on the scene as someone afraid of the truth or the cops.

  12. #27
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    For the most part, I agree with you. My handgun instructor said not to talk to the police. I've watched the "Don't Talk To The Police" videos. While I don't believe in being "Chatty Cathy", if the first words you utter are "I want my lawyer", my response as a cop would be "I'll be happy to let you make that call, sir. Why do you feel you need an attorney?"
    this is easy, from the moment you request your lawyer have no conversation with the cops. name rank and serial number is all you can say from that point on

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtsr View Post
    Mas Ayoob says:

    1. Call 911
    2. Officer this person attacked me, I will sign the complaint,
    3. Officer here is the evidence (knife, gun, ball bat, whatever).
    4. Officer these are the witnesses.
    5. Officer you will have my full cooperation in 24 hrs after I see my attorney.

    Can't improve on that.

    What you say WILL be used against you in court.
    I would add, "Officer, I'm not feeling very well right now, and I like to go to the hospital to be seen by a physican."
    Last edited by RETSUPT99; August 27th, 2011 at 07:24 PM.
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  14. #29
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    My only non-legal advice* is to find a lawyer now and speak with him or her for advice. I'm amazed at how often carriers plan for the unlikely moment but fail to make any real plans for the aftermath. The advice as to what to say may vary depending on the location, time, etc. Who knows, maybe the DA is an anti-gun zealot. Maybe not. You don't know. Talk to a criminal defense lawyer, and keep his or her number next to your carry permit.

    Consider the following. You've shot someone in a parking lot, probably at close range. Maybe it was a head shot, and you have gore all over your shooting hand and perhaps even in your face. Maybe the guy's head exploded and he fell into you and thus, from afar, you look like some crazed killing machine. Your are not right; this is not what you expected to have all over your face when you went to the Kroger to pick up some ice cream. Or maybe it's a relatively clean scene. You don't know. You've called 911. Maybe you managed to say that you were attacked, and you shot someone, and you need an ambulance and the police, and god knows what else. The police arrive. You say more things. Your heart rate is about 130 beats per minute. People are staring at you or running away. On the 911 call you say you were attacked. When the police are there you say "he came after you." Cops ask you if he was attacking you. You blather out "He was coming after me, I had no choice." Cops report "Suspect did not say he was attacked." Cops don't have an agenda, they are just writing stuff up. Detective reads this, listens to the tape, thinks "***? Why is this guy changing his story?"

    * I'm a layer, but I'm not your lawyer, you are not my client, and I'm not giving you any legal advice. If you think this is advice you can rely on, it's not.

  15. #30
    Member Array natimage's Avatar
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    I've tried contacting attorneys in Wisconsin but since it's a new law here they don't seem to understand why I would want to talk with them. Like they almost seem suspicious saying "Well why would you need to discharge your firearm" almost sounding like I'm planning on it...to which I replied..."it won't be at a time of my choosing unfortunately and will use it if I'm put in a situation where me or my family will be killed if lethal force isn't used" but...no call back from that one...so I don't know who I can talk to.
    Psalm 23
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    Certified Smith & Wesson M&P pistol and MP15 rifle armorer

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