Right to remain silent - Page 3

Right to remain silent

This is a discussion on Right to remain silent within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Coming from a legal professional working in criminal law, the right to remain silent often times means "Shut your trap if you know whats good ...

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 69
Like Tree47Likes

Thread: Right to remain silent

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array xsigma40cal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    North Dakota is open for business!!
    Posts
    646
    Coming from a legal professional working in criminal law, the right to remain silent often times means "Shut your trap if you know whats good for you." I cant tell you how many clients Ive had to make plea agreements for on the simple basis that they thought they could argue their way out of charges right there on the scene, and it always blows up in thier faces. True, it does reflect favorably on you if you give absolute bare essentials on the incident...

    Ex.
    "I was unlocking my car to go home from my office, I saw him approach me from the left side with a knife(the size of the knife also helps) in his hand. He told me he wants my wallet, keys, cell phone etc. I drew my gun, fearing for my life, he wouldnt drop the knife or go away. I had no choice.

    Simple, no frills statements like these will go along way because it leaves little to interpret from the LEO's perspective.

    A wise lawyer(insert joke here) once told me that the second you try to argue your way out of a situation, you become an advocate who is already in a hole and no where to dig but down. All together, I would stay at the scene, call the PD, unload/holster your weapon and place it on the deck. When they ask you what happened, present your ID and CCP, after that, the only word coming out of your mouth is "lawyer".


  2. #32
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by xsigma40cal View Post
    Coming from a legal professional working in criminal law, the right to remain silent often times means "Shut your trap if you know whats good for you." I cant tell you how many clients Ive had to make plea agreements for on the simple basis that they thought they could argue their way out of charges right there on the scene, and it always blows up in thier faces. True, it does reflect favorably on you if you give absolute bare essentials on the incident...

    Ex.
    "I was unlocking my car to go home from my office, I saw him approach me from the left side with a knife(the size of the knife also helps) in his hand. He told me he wants my wallet, keys, cell phone etc. I drew my gun, fearing for my life, he wouldnt drop the knife or go away. I had no choice.

    Simple, no frills statements like these will go along way because it leaves little to interpret from the LEO's perspective.

    A wise lawyer(insert joke here) once told me that the second you try to argue your way out of a situation, you become an advocate who is already in a hole and no where to dig but down. All together, I would stay at the scene, call the PD, unload/holster your weapon and place it on the deck. When they ask you what happened, present your ID and CCP, after that, the only word coming out of your mouth is "lawyer".
    +1 x100
    My practiced routine is "officer I was attacked, here is my cwp and d/l, I was in fear for my life, there is the guy who attacked me, those people saw what happened, I want to sign a criminal complaint, I want my lawyer present before I say anything else".
    at that point if the cops even ask me if I want a cup of coffee I would remain mute.
    I've been there/done that (not because I shot someone) and one of the cops even said to me you're doing the right thing, just keep your mouth shut.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Metro DC
    Posts
    958
    It seems to me that if the police are at the scene of a homicide (the killing of another human being), and are about to interview you because you are believed to be the person who committed the homicide, then you are the suspect in the homicide. They would be remiss for not Mirandaizing you. If they didn't, and you talked too much, everything you say until you are Mirnadaized could very well be excluded as evidence.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    A homicide in itself is not necessarily a crime. It would be necessary for them first to determine if a crime had been committed.
    Secret Spuk likes this.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  5. #35
    Member Array natimage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    126
    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    It seems to me that if the police are at the scene of a homicide (the killing of another human being), and are about to interview you because you are believed to be the person who committed the homicide, then you are the suspect in the homicide. They would be remiss for not Mirandaizing you. If they didn't, and you talked too much, everything you say until you are Mirnadaized could very well be excluded as evidence.
    Not necessarily...you only have to be mirandized IF you are placed in custody AND they want to question you...they can question you all they want without being mirandized if you aren't in custody...of course if you already know your rights then you'd still be smart to stay quiet.
    Psalm 23
    In God I trust, it's the rest of you I'm concerned about

    Certified Smith & Wesson M&P pistol and MP15 rifle armorer

  6. #36
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    1,786
    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    It seems to me that if the police are at the scene of a homicide (the killing of another human being), and are about to interview you because you are believed to be the person who committed the homicide, then you are the suspect in the homicide. They would be remiss for not Mirandaizing you. If they didn't, and you talked too much, everything you say until you are Mirnadaized could very well be excluded as evidence.
    This is not the case, anytime you make a statement to police, even if you go to a police station and make a statement it can be used against you. The stipulation is that when you are in police custody, you must be mirandized before any questioning can take place. If you are not in custody they do not have to mirandize you. That being said, when you are in a defensive shooting, you should clam up, ask for a lawyer and sit there because even though you are not in custody and have not yet been mirandized it can still be used against you and will not be excluded because you were not in custody at the time
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  7. #37
    Member Array MikeNice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    283


    Don't Talk to Cops
    Follow Ayoob's advice then shut up.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Metro DC
    Posts
    958
    Quote Originally Posted by natimage View Post
    Not necessarily...you only have to be mirandized IF you are placed in custody AND they want to question you...they can question you all they want without being mirandized if you aren't in custody...of course if you already know your rights then you'd still be smart to stay quiet.
    I believe it is the circumstances of the questioning that determines the need to be Mirandized, not wheher you are officially in police custody. You could be inside your house or outside in the driveway but if you reasonably believe you are not free to walk away from the police, then they would probably have to Mirandaize you in order to question you and use your answers aainst you. You do not actually have to be in police custody.

  9. #39
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    I believe it is the circumstances of the questioning that determines the need to be Mirandized, not wheher you are fficially in police custody. You could be inside your house or outside in the driveway but if you reasonably believe you are not free to walk away from the police, then they would probably have to Mirandaize you in order to question you and use your answers aainst you. You do not actually have to be in police custody.
    this is just splitting hairs, the best of advice is if involved in ANY kind of incident you would be wise to keep your big mouth shut, the cops are not your friends, they are looking for an answer to whatever they are there for and will choose the easiest way to come to that answer, your blabbing to them may not go the way you think is should, keep your mouth shut while the cops do what they do.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Metro DC
    Posts
    958
    Theoretically you use your weapon in a situation where a guy had a knife or gun,
    The original poster's statement above is what makes this scenario a homicide. It may be a justifiable homicide but it is a homicide nonetheless. And that's what the originaloster's scenario involves. The police showing up to the scene of a homicide.

    Now I sure am not advocating running your mouth to the police. What I am saying is that you could get a gift from God if the police respond to certain scenarios and question you withut Mirandaizing you. If I responded to the scene of a homicide and had sufficient indication that you committed the homicide, and I questioned you without reading you your rights, I would not be at all surprised to find your statements suppressed.

  11. #41
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    3,266
    It seems funny to me that these threads always have the same answers. Don't talk, lawyer up. Well that may be fine but that is acting like a bad guy IMO. In my state, the LEO's aren't out to "get" anybody. They welcome law abiding citizens protecting themselves. It just seems most of the respondents here take the attitude of the LEO's TRYING to put you in jail. This is just not the case where I live.
    Secret Spuk likes this.

  12. #42
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    It seems funny to me that these threads always have the same answers. Don't talk, lawyer up. Well that may be fine but that is acting like a bad guy IMO. In my state, the LEO's aren't out to "get" anybody. They welcome law abiding citizens protecting themselves. It just seems most of the respondents here take the attitude of the LEO's TRYING to put you in jail. This is just not the case where I live.
    with all due respect I think that your view is quite naive, I hope that if you are ever in trouble in the law things go well for you.

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,480
    Your statements prior to being "Mirandized" may be excluded. But, most likely would not be. Unless you are suspected of criminal activity, from the onset. In which case, the officers should mirandize you prior to asking any questions to avoid the possibility of exclusion of the statements at trial.

    It is a "slippery slope..." Your best bet is to say as little as possible to the police. The "canned statement" provided by Ayoob and others is the safest route to take...

    • "This man attacked me."
    • "I was in fear of my life"
    • "I will sign a complaint."
    • "Those witnesses saw it (pointing)."
    • "The evidence is there (pointing again)."
    • "I will cooperate fully, after I have spoken to my attorney."
    Police are trained to interview you and to get information from you. It could be a perfectly legitimate self defense shooting, but YOUR wording of the events may create more problems for you... and you could end up being charged...

    For those who think that the police cannot use pre-Miranda speech against you... Do you honestly think if you said "I killed the SOB, I did it, he needed killin'!" before you were Mirandized that those words would not be used against you? That is a dream... You might not have even been suspected of criminal activity in the shooting... NOW, you have thrown an entirely different light on it... It will be used against you... GUARANTEED.

    The reason you don't say anything: In the immediate aftermath of a crime being committed against you, and your wholly (or even partially) successful "stopping of the threat;" It is not a rational, calm person doing the talking, it's adrenaline and other natural hormones and chemicals in your body doing the talking... Those chemicals can change the tone of your voice, your mannerisms, and a whole lot about "you" that may make you seem as though you were angry, hopped up, agitated. And, if you are or appear calm, cool and collected, maybe you're a cold blooded killer...

    LEO might think...."Hmmm... maybe you killed him for some other reason..." And, say "Now tell me again what happened..." And if your story varies one "jot or tittle" from what you told him the first time, or what he thinks you said the first time, or how you say it...

    Nope, I've got the right to remain silent... beyond the "canned speech," I've got nothing to say... and if we aren't moving away from the scene quickly enough for my taste, I'm going to request medical attention... all those chemicals racing through my body... I feel faint, or dizzy or my chest is tight, or all of the above.

    All that said, in a very obvious case of self defense, there might be few questions... and you might be free to go sooner rather than later... and that's the type of self defense shooting any one of us should be in, and likely never will be... Because we will have avoided it going that far...
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    3,266
    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    with all due respect I think that your view is quite naive, I hope that if you are ever in trouble in the law things go well for you.
    Judging from your statements on this post you seem to think the world is out to get you. I disagree. You have made clear cut statements that you do not like nor trust LEO's. These are the men and women who risk their lives to try and make mine safer and often do so for little pay and no accolades. I respect them, respect their position, and if (God forbid) I do have to defend myself, I will make a clear concise statement to them of what happened. Rambling on and defending myself aren't necessary for this, simple fact oriented communication is.

  15. #45
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Judging from your statements on this post you seem to think the world is out to get you. I disagree. You have made clear cut statements that you do not like nor trust LEO's. These are the men and women who risk their lives to try and make mine safer and often do so for little pay and no accolades. I respect them, respect their position, and if (God forbid) I do have to defend myself, I will make a clear concise statement to them of what happened. Rambling on and defending myself aren't necessary for this, simple fact oriented communication is.
    I never made any kind of a post saying I don't like cops and this has nothing to do with respect or paranoia. I've been around the block more than once and whether you know it or not it this is reality it is how the real world works and for better or worse the world isn't always a fair and honest place and the good guy always doesn't prevail
    to repeat it again I hope that if you are ever involved in an incident that things go well for you.
    FWIW, just about every expert from lawyers to cops and investigators agree with keeping your mouth shut and not offering anything beyond basic information.
    good luck
    oakchas likes this.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

an incident about my life which remain silent
,
card for kids to carry to remain silent until a parent is called
,
defensive shooting guidelines for the responsibility armed citizen
,
defensive shooting guidelines for the responsible
,
defensive shooting guidelines for the responsibley armed citizen
,

defensive shooting guidelines for the responsibly armed citizen

,

defensive shooting guidelines responsibly armed citizen

,
i had the right to remain silent...just not the ability
,
remain silent card
,

right to remain silent card

,
right to remain silent scenario
,

uscca complaints

Click on a term to search for related topics.