Right to remain silent - Page 4

Right to remain silent

This is a discussion on Right to remain silent within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I carry a card from the USCCA (United States Concealed Carry Association). On one side it says: Member Instructions 1. Call 911 - "I was ...

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 69
Like Tree47Likes

Thread: Right to remain silent

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array BenGoodLuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,319
    I carry a card from the USCCA (United States Concealed Carry Association). On one side it says:

    Member Instructions
    1. Call 911 - "I was afraid for my life and was forced to defend myself. Please send an ambulance right away."
    2. Call your attorney
    3. Do not talk to anyone without your attorney.
    4. Follow guidelines on reverse of this card.

    On the other side it says:

    Defensive Shooting Guidelines for the Responsibly Armed Citizen

    "If I have given this to you, it has been necessary to take actions to defend innocent life. I am willing to sign a criminal complaint against the perpetrator(s). I will point out witnesses and evidence. As you may have experienced yourself, this is a stressful and traumatic experience for me. Therefore, I wish to make no further statements until I have contacted an attorney and composed myself. I also do not consent to any searches. I will cooperate fully once I have consulted with an attorney and calmed down. As a lawfully armed citizen, I ask for the same courtesy that you would show a fellow officer who was involved in a similar situation. Thank you for your understanding."
    Eaglebeak likes this.
    Ben

    Cogito, ergo armatum sum. I think, therefore I am armed. (Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)



  2. #47
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,502
    Quote Originally Posted by bentcursor View Post
    I carry a card from the USCCA (United States Concealed Carry Association). On one side it says:

    Member Instructions
    1. Call 911 - "I was afraid for my life and was forced to defend myself. Please send an ambulance right away."
    2. Call your attorney
    3. Do not talk to anyone without your attorney.
    4. Follow guidelines on reverse of this card.

    On the other side it says:

    Defensive Shooting Guidelines for the Responsibly Armed Citizen

    "If I have given this to you, it has been necessary to take actions to defend innocent life. I am willing to sign a criminal complaint against the perpetrator(s). I will point out witnesses and evidence. As you may have experienced yourself, this is a stressful and traumatic experience for me. Therefore, I wish to make no further statements until I have contacted an attorney and composed myself. I also do not consent to any searches. I will cooperate fully once I have consulted with an attorney and calmed down. As a lawfully armed citizen, I ask for the same courtesy that you would show a fellow officer who was involved in a similar situation. Thank you for your understanding."
    You must not be a "Plus member" with "Defense Shield!" there you get the number to call "Defense Shield," too! Yipeee!

    I don't care for the last sentence.. Legally carrying a gun does not make me LEO or "worthy" of the same treatment as LEO. I also don't really care for handing them a card and having to be asked "show me the witnesses, show me the evidence." And going around pantomiming for on site LEOs. Handing them a card saying "I won't talk, but I can point and grunt." Just seems so... I don't know, banal, maybe? I can think and act for myself... I choose to not speak beyond basic statements... I don't need to hand them a "deaf mute" card...

    FWIW I'm a member of USCCA as well, but I dont' carry their cards, I don't subscribe to Defense Shield; and frankly am weary of their constant sales pitches for DS.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array BenGoodLuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,319
    I think the point of the card is to help people understand that no matter how much they think they might be "helping" by making statements, even basic statements, anything they say "can and will" be used against them.
    Ben

    Cogito, ergo armatum sum. I think, therefore I am armed. (Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)


  4. #49
    VIP Member
    Array PEF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,917
    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    It seems funny to me that these threads always have the same answers. Don't talk, lawyer up. Well that may be fine but that is acting like a bad guy IMO. In my state, the LEO's aren't out to "get" anybody. They welcome law abiding citizens protecting themselves. It just seems most of the respondents here take the attitude of the LEO's TRYING to put you in jail. This is just not the case where I live.
    Smolck,

    It's not the police being lazy, or being out to "get" you, etc. It's that what you say at that moment won't help you, and can be used against you. Any little discrepancy can be viewed as a "lie." More likely than not the cop doesn't know you from a meth-head, and he's not there to trust you. Think about this - have you ever been in even a mildly traumatic situation, and then blurted something out? Chances are you probably won't remember. Then, if you say something contrary to what you said before, it looks like you are changing your story. If you asset your *constitutional rights* it cannot be used against you. You will then have time to collect your thoughts, speak with your attorney, and make a statement in due course.

    Granted, the locus of the shooting may make a difference in the initial perception of the fact finders - if a cop comes into your house at 3:00 AM, sees your door kicked in, sees you in your underwear, your daughter behind you crying, and a fully dressed dead guy with a ski mask on the floor with a 10-inch blade in his hand, he may have a different initial take that if he sees you fully dressed in the parking lot of a bar, standing over a dead guy dressed in a polo shirt and slacks at 3:00 AM. But in either case, you will need time to collect your thoughts and not blather like an idiot.

    Nothing against the police - it's all about exercising the right to remain silent, which many a supreme court justice on down has recommened time and again.

    PEF

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,014
    And let's not forget the recent SCOTUS opinion where they stated that you have speak to the police to assert your right not to speak to the police. Simply remaining silent is not enough.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  6. #51
    Member Array MikeNice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    283
    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    In my state, the LEO's aren't out to "get" anybody. They welcome law abiding citizens protecting themselves. It just seems most of the respondents here take the attitude of the LEO's TRYING to put you in jail. This is just not the case where I live.
    The cop doesn't have to be out to get you. He could misinterpert your response and then it changes everything. If he incorrectly remembers how he worded a question it can make your answer seem dubious. Cops are human and make mistakes. They don't have to be out to get you.

    Also, cops are human and want to believe what makes them comfortable. Watch the documentary "The Thin Blue Line." Listen to how many times the cops say, we didn't think he could be the guy because he was too young. Listen for phrases like he was one of us, the other guy wasn't from around here, and kids around here don't do those types of things.

    The cops weren't bad people they just went for the easy target because it fit their world view. They could not imagine it was a young kid from their area that committed the crime. It had to be the older migrant construction worker. It didn't matter that the kid had a record that involved armed robbery. It was so far outside of their world view that it could not be possible. To them Occams razor said it had to be the construction worker so they chased that solution.

  7. #52
    Member Array xXMens ReaXx's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    110
    Hmmmmmm. So normally I would advise people to just invoke the right to counsel and the right to remain silent, but Limatunes post has me thinking about saying things like "here is the evidence, etc."

    It's really balancing possible self incrimination (prosecutions evidence) versus exculpatory evidence (your evidence to exonerate you; eg the attacker got away and hid the gun).

    I don't know it's a tough one but I think at the end of the day self incrimination is much more likely than the disapearance of exculpatory evidence. Especially given the high stress environment of a recent attack. I think I am gonna roll the dice and let my courtroom testimony battle the attackers court room testimony that he wasn't armed worst case scenario. He said she said is better odds than incriminating yourself.

    To each his/her own but I think I am still sticking to the advice in my first sentence unless others can convince me otherwise. This topic should be discussed in law review articles by the way.

    They don't call him lucky Ned Pepper for nothing

  8. #53
    VIP Member
    Array TX-JB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Sugar Land, TX
    Posts
    5,739
    Speaking from experience, until you've been through a life or death situation, you don't know how you'll react. Believe me you don't know unless you've been through it. With the adrenaline dump, you'll be wanting to run off at the mouth, and probably won't realize what you're saying.

    Make a simple statement, then invoke your right to silence. You can do it in a way that doesn't sound... fishy. My statement would be something like this:

    "Officer, that man attacked me, he had a BIG KNIFE/REALLY BIG GUN in his hand. He came at me, I was in fear for my life, I had no choice, I had to defend myself".... "I don't feel well, I've got high blood pressure and diabetes, I don't feel right, I need to go to the hospital".... If he stops there, let it go. If not add, "I'll gladly make a statement after I've been checked out at the hospital and have spoken to my lawyer."

    Believe me, you should go to the hospital. Once the reality of the situation hits, you could have some serious medical issues. You've just survived a gunfight, don't let something medical do you in. If you don't have any medical conditions, don't lie.
    "Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam Houston

    Retired LEO
    Firearms Instructor
    NRA Life Member

  9. #54
    Member Array Blindeye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Orlando
    Posts
    65
    "Officer, that man just tried to kill me and I was forced to defend myself. I am too shaken by this to speak right now.
    I'd like to be examined by my family physician, and I want to speak to my attorney also. After that I would be glad to speak to you
    or any other officers, here, at your station, or at my office."

    A friend who is a criminal defense attorney gave me that statement.
    I think it's pretty good.
    Ishmael likes this.

  10. #55
    Member Array leok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    mentor, ohio
    Posts
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    I think the decision to remain silent is a personal one, and should be based on each individual situation. The Police have absoloutly no obligation to mirandize you. Unless they intend to arrest you, have arrested you, and are interrogating you. 75% of a shooting investigation depends on forensics. And forensics dont lie. Another police tool will be proximity. As long as you are in a place, at a time that reflects common logic, you probably would have very little to worry about. The police will most likely figure out what happened. Any modern police dept, or states attorney understands that eye witness testimony is the least reliable evidence.

    Absent politics there is no reason for the police to make a decision at the scene if there is any indication the shooter was acting purely in self defense. However there are police officers and detectives who have no concern for justice, and will always grab the low hanging fruit.
    that may be true in most towns but this key stone cops protected town I live in the investigating officer of the attempted burglary of me tried to blame me for being on the wrong rd
    now keep in mind I was on the main rd 1/4 of a mile from the pd an on the side walk in a well lite up area. oh ya did I mention I was in a power wheelchair

  11. #56
    Member Array zdinnd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    93
    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    "I will make a statement as soon as I can speak with my lawyer."

    Your spouse can be called to testify against you. Do not put them in that position by spilling it all to them.
    Great quote! But I thought your spouse could NOT be called to testify if they did not WANT to.
    Μολὼν λάβε

  12. #57
    Member Array Ishmael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ohio Valley
    Posts
    231
    After a SD shooting incident, you will almost certainly eventually consult with a lawyer. That lawyer will NEVER be glad to hear that you gave a statement to police. I do agree that it is important to make sure responding officers don't miss any evidence that you are aware of, however. ("He tried to stab me. LOOK THERE'S THE KNIFE!")

    The problem isn't necessarily that police will be "out to get you," the problem is that, if the prosecutor makes the decision to prosecute, his or her job then becomes finding every scrap of evidence that helps make the case. One such scrap might be a cop's hurried notes from your on-scene statement. Even if you gave a "perfect" statement (of course, your lawyer will say "there's no such thing as a good statement"), the cop might have misheard/used a shorthand that distorts your meaning. That still becomes "the responding officer's notes," which can seem very authoritative to a jury (and to the media, which of course NEVER EVER influences, say, elected prosecutors). Also, it is not incumbent on the prosecutor to quote you in context during the trial, so they can pick and choose to present one sentence or even a piece of a sentence that sounds bad to the jury. Your attorney can/should challenge that, but the damage might be done.

    And remember, if you end up in the interview room, it is mostly likely because at least SOME of the cops believe you are guilty of a crime. This should give you a very bad feeling unless your lawyer is sitting next to you.

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    3,062
    WOW!!!

    Such mistrust of the police... I guess I shouldnt be surprised at how many folks mistrust the police. Specially these new military style officers where all they know is "LAW ENFORCEMENT!" To tell the truth... they make me a little nervous too...

    I guess another thing to consider is the maturity of the officers on the scene. Fortunately I worked in a fairly big city where shooting were not uncommon. I guess for some a shooting will be the pivotal point in their career. So they try and get the most milage they can by investigating the incident way past common sense. Maybe there are situations that one should exercise their right against self incrimination. As someone mentioned... supposed a department is totally populated by "keystone cops".

  14. #59
    Ex Member Array JBachman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ferndale, MI
    Posts
    120
    With all due respect, police officers are NOT your friend. They ARE out to get you. That is their job. Do not help them by opening your mouth. I have been involved in a good shoot, and during the entire process, I was made out to be the criminal by the responding officers as well as a detective. As soon as the DA got the case, statements and reports... That was it. Good shoot. Case closed.

    Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

  15. #60
    Member Array leok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    mentor, ohio
    Posts
    30
    [QUOTE= As someone mentioned... supposed a department is totally populated by "keystone cops".[/QUOTE]
    yes that was me that said that an I will say it again

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

an incident about my life which remain silent
,
card for kids to carry to remain silent until a parent is called
,
defensive shooting guidelines for the responsibility armed citizen
,
defensive shooting guidelines for the responsible
,
defensive shooting guidelines for the responsibley armed citizen
,

defensive shooting guidelines for the responsibly armed citizen

,

defensive shooting guidelines responsibly armed citizen

,
i had the right to remain silent...just not the ability
,
remain silent card
,

right to remain silent card

,
right to remain silent scenario
,

uscca complaints

Click on a term to search for related topics.