Carson City Scenerio

This is a discussion on Carson City Scenerio within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by zonzin An updated account of what Ralph experienced in Scenerio 2. The gunfire prompted Ralph Swagler, the owner of a nearby barbecue ...

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 27 of 27
Like Tree3Likes

Thread: Carson City Scenerio

  1. #16
    VIP Member
    Array archer51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    20,474
    Quote Originally Posted by zonzin View Post
    An updated account of what Ralph experienced in Scenerio 2.


    The gunfire prompted Ralph Swagler, the owner of a nearby barbecue restaurant, to grab his weapon. But when Sencion started toward him, Swagler backed away. "I wish I had shot at him when he was going in the IHOP," said Swagler, who owns Locals BBQ & Grill. "But when he came at me, when somebody is pointing an automatic weapon at you — you can't believe the firepower, the kind of rounds coming out of that weapon."


    .
    Interesting, he can tell from across the parking lot it is an "automatic" weapon. The last I saw it had not been determined if it was fully auto or semi auto. Sounds like someone who wants some press time to me.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

    USAF Retired
    NRA Life Member

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    Member Array Lanner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    263
    Archer I think when most people say "automatic weapon" to them it is synonomous with "assault rifle". Ie an AR is = to an M16 even though one of those is only capable of single shots. That guy doesnt sound like he is press hungry, to me that reads "I got my gun, realized I was way outgunned".

    Scenario 1. Get out of the building asap. Call 911.
    Scenario 2. Well that depends on what I have on me. I probably would do the same thing. Retreat, find cover, 911.
    Now if by some random act of kindness I had my Saiga 12 or Saiga 308 with me, I think I would engage him. I think if you have the means to stop an obvious spree killer, I would feel a moral obligation to try. My handgun(s) wouldnt cut it unless I was I dont know driving by in a car. The rifles or the shotgun, sure I would try and help.

  4. #18
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    I am Howard, my first responsibly is to get my wife Ellen to to safety.

    I am Ralph, I am not LE I do not need to run to the fight. Call 911 and get to cover, don't stand on the sidewalk and watch. Bullets know no boundary.

    If I was in the area of the shooter and he was shooting those around me then I am in danger and will take action to stop the threat.
    In each of the two scenarios, I believe these are the best responses I would take.

    Good post Bill.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,354
    After being told I made a good post, I have to say I have thought about it. In scenario 2 I would need to be there to get the feel and all but don't know if I could live with my self knowing I had a chance and could have saved some lives but walked away and did nothing.

    There is alot to take in here such as how far away is he, does he see me and know I'm there.

    What if my wife and kids were in there while I was not would I want someone help if they had a chance to save their life. How would I feel if they just walked away (it didn't concern him or her)

    I'm old, so I'm slow and can not see my sights like I use to, but I can still fight some and kill a few. I see this being the trouble our Country is in (no one want to get involved, let someone else take care of it) Some times we all need to stand up and be a man.

    I know we don't get paid for doing such things, well neither did the men who signed their names to a paper telling England where to go and gave this Country its start.

    In the first scenario if I'm not in the part of the IHOP where the fight is taking place my wifes safety comes first.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    I agree with Bill to a large extent, my wife's safety is my first concern.

    Having said that, in either scenario, if I thought I could make a difference and save some lives, I would feel obligated to do so.
    I have some advantages that make this a more reasonable choice for me than for some others. My children are long since grown and on their own. I do not have to worry about the financial well being of my wife. I have been in some rodeos before. These make the choice somewhat easier for me than for some others.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  7. #21
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Oceanfront Property
    Posts
    3,850
    It is all situational. Under stress with other civilians around, a handgun shot across a street is a risky bet. You are looking at around 40-70+ feet ( 13-25 yards). not to mention he is more than likely not standing still and a lot of things will be going on around you..... especially if you get into what I call the stress tunnel.... Especially if the perp is wearing a vest and then turns the rifle on you, big trouble for you. If you have the clean shot, take two to the body and one to the head and move for COVER not concealment. Move to a place that you can either have an easy exit or can ambush him when he comes looking for you. I would NOT stand there and have a shootout with a rifle toting crazy. Especially when you have no idea if he has on body armor. Three quick shots then get to cover immediately. You also have to take into account that once you do that, he can and will take out his rage on any innocents around you, especially if you miss or he is wearing a vest.....

    Take the head shot first? Then two quick onees to the body.... may be a better strategy, one well aimed shot when you have surprise and then two quicker shots to COM. Are you confident enough? Practiced enough? Can you do it under stress and pressure? You may only get one shot at stopping him and your life and the life of others may depend on it.

    Bad breath range? Come out of cover or concealment and empty into his face or the back of his head. Longer ranges..... lots of variables with a handgun....

    There was a shooting in texas where a concealed weapon carrier engaged the shooter with his .45 and the shooter had on a vest, and now the hero is dead.... I understand being a hero and all, but you also have to think about the people who depend on you to come home and provide for them....

    Getting in a concealed or covered position and making your shots, so he is surprised and does not know which direction they came from.....

    The whole situation is dependent upon so many variables.....

  8. #22
    ITW
    ITW is offline
    Member Array ITW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    S.C. USA
    Posts
    88
    I read some place there was a CCW holder across the street.

    He left the scene instead of confronting what was at that point an unknown situation across the street.

    Some here may not know the story of Mark Allen Wilson in Tyler, Tx. Look it up.

    What would I have done outside of the restaurant itself? Called 911 as I was heading in the other direction and asked them to send the SWAT team.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    A lot of good points AZ.

    Circumstances and abilities should drive your actions.

    Personally I care not about being a "hero", just saving lives if I am able.

    All glory is fleeting.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,811
    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    There was a shooting in texas where a concealed weapon carrier engaged the shooter with his .45 and the shooter had on a vest, and now the hero is dead.... I understand being a hero and all, but you also have to think about the people who depend on you to come home and provide for them....
    IMO the most important thing stated in this thread.
    Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME

    Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,220
    When you were in school, how many times did you come out on the losing end of an argument or fight, and all the way home you replayed the scenario...

    "Yeah, that's what I should have said....I should just have told him....yeah, I should've said that..."

    It's a lot easier to armchair quarterback and replay the scene than it is to act when the bullets are flying.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    TEXAS
    Posts
    4,110
    As to being in IHOP at the time of the event:

    !. If at all possible set in a seat so that you can see the entrance and have a view of the exterior of the building through windows etc.

    2. Be aware of choke points say at entrance etc.

    3. Enjoy your meal and fellowship of the table but stay in condition yellow.

    4. Make SA a part of your life and look for the advantages each situation offers.

    Personal notes: these things are a life style for me and now it just comes natural.

    As to wife, she shoots as well or better than me and we watch each others back, team work is always better than lone wolf.

    BTW always enjoy a good meal and have a good time
    NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness,
    nor the arrow for its swiftness,
    nor the warrior for his glory.
    I love only that which they defend.
    -J.R.R. Tolkien

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,354
    AZ I agree you have some very good points. Yes there are a lot of things to look at and to think about, but it can be done. I have run scenarios of going up against a shooter on a school playground in FOF. If you can close the distance before he knows you are there you have a chance to win with a pistol over a full auto rifle. Movement and heavy stream of fire. Cover is nice but not always there in this type of fight. I have done it and won, also have lost.

    Like guantes I have lived my life, kids are on their own, I'm worth more money dead than I will ever earn in the rest of my life, so wife has no money worry if I'm not there. Yes they will all miss me and I will miss not see things happen afterwards, but who and what have I change and saved by do what I did in dieing? If I should

    For me I see that there could be worse things than death, and living the rest of my life knowing I could have saved peoples lives would be hard for me to live with.

    Walking away would be the safe thing to do, deep down don't know that I could live with doing that. Go figure!
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •