Real Scenario just happened few hours ago - Page 2

Real Scenario just happened few hours ago

This is a discussion on Real Scenario just happened few hours ago within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ksholder I am confused. Are you saying that you would take the beating this guy took if the only tool you had ...

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Thread: Real Scenario just happened few hours ago

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    I am confused. Are you saying that you would take the beating this guy took if the only tool you had on you was a gun?
    Could be wrong, but I think he was talking about assisting the victim......not being the victim.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius


  2. #17
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    First of all, having gotten a random text from someone saying, "Why is your phone number in my boyfriend's contact list?" I understand being wrongly identified as a love interest (if that is, indeed, what is going on here). Thankfully I only got a text message and the situation was able to be taken care of without too many threatening words said.

    On the other hand, I don't care if your friend was sleeping with another man's wife or not. That does not justify a beating like that. If the husband suspected cheating he could divorce the woman, tell them what he thought, but a beating like that is still against the law whether his spouse was sleeping around with your friend or not.

    Personally, if I was going to risk sleeping with another woman's husband I'd be looking over my shoulder for her and guarding my drink a little more carefully as poison seems to be a woman's preferred method of murder. That's part of the risk you take when you decide to betray another human being. It doesn't justify what they do if they find out even if you can understand WHY they do it.

    So, whether or not he was sleeping with another man's wife is a moot point when it comes to self defense. He was attacked violently and had EVERY right to defend himself.

    Yes, it was his fault for not having a means to defend himself.

    If I were in the ladies' room and a woman came in and suggested I was sleeping with her husband I would try to deescalate the situation with words. If I felt a physical attack was imminent I would probably preemptively spray her with pepper spray.

    If this escalated and I felt, at any time, my unborn baby was in jeopardy I would not hesitate to use lethal force.

    If I came across that kind of situation I would probably pepper spray BOTH participants or at least the one who seemed to be doing the most damage to the other.

    As guantes said.. there comes a point where no matter who the "good guy" is vs "bad guy" the fight needs to stop.

  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Pepper spray is a very underrated tool, IMO. Spend $7~$15 for a keychain-sized canister, one that comes with a clip & is easy to carry. As Limatunes suggested, spraying both participants to end the fight wouldn't be out of line in a public place like this.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  4. #19
    Member Array trainercb's Avatar
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    I just left my friends house. This is the full story. Here it is, for scenario preparedness:

    My friend walked into the restroom and no one was in it. He went into a stall and locked the door. He said a man about 6'4 came in screaming and cussing and punching the stall door. My friend said he turned around to see the man's hands yanking the door down and kicking it. He said the door was flexing and bowing. The man was yelling that my friend took a picture of him and his wife. When my friend opened the door he got leveled with a solid punch to the nose. My friend was then thrown around the restroom, against walls and even in a urinal. My friend got demolished for around 11-14 minutes before the police showed up and batoned the man to get him to stop his attack. The man told the police my friend took a picture of him and his wife. When the police asked for my friend's phone, he told them that it was in his car and that they man was clearly mistaken. The police went and retrieved his phone and searched it, and of course, found no picture. The police asked if he wanted to press charges and my friend said yes.


    my friends head is severly injured. His jaw cannot close; his teeth do not touch no matter how hard he tries to close them. he said his throat hurts rediculously bad and that he feels like there are rocks in his throat. both eyes are blacked, his forehead looks like he has potatoes under his skin, and his lips and nose are 3 times their normal size.


    He is a CCW holder and "occasionally carries." If he were armed and when he was trapped in the stall, would shooting through the door have been justified after warning the man? I'm wondering what I wouldve done if I were him.

    this is creepily ironic especially how around a week ago a thread popped up about how we all need to be on alert in a public restroom and I made a joke out of it.

    stay safe guys
    A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them..."
    -George Washington

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I would probably pepper spray him first. From there it would depend on circumstances. 6' 4" is a lot bigger than I am. Given the opportunity I might try pistol whipping prior to shooting, assuming escape was unavailable.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  6. #21
    Member Array trainercb's Avatar
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    remember he was trapped in the stall and the door swings inward. there would be no escape except by trying to get around this man. also my friend is 5'8. and had no pepper spray
    A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them..."
    -George Washington

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by trainercb View Post
    remember he was trapped in the stall and the door swings inward. there would be no escape except by trying to get around this man. also my friend is 5'8. and had no pepper spray
    Your friend had no pepper spray and No Gun! What are you expecting?

    You say he has a ccw permit and only occasionally carries it. Well, all I can say is I bet he carries his gun from now on!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I am also 5' 8". It is prudent to carry a non lethal alternative. Barring that, do what you gotta do. The call on when to shoot an unarmed assailant is very subjective and open to later question.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  9. #24
    Member Array trainercb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Your friend had no pepper spray and No Gun! What are you expecting?

    You say he has a ccw permit and only occasionally carries it. Well, all I can say is I bet he carries his gun from now on!

    he answered the door with a bag of ice on his face and his gun on his hip
    A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them..."
    -George Washington

  10. #25
    Member Array surfcc's Avatar
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    I was attacked and assaulted on the fairway of the 18 th hole at my local golf course in 1993 by a drunken SOB who was in the group behind us all day long.....swearing, loud, ******* on the tee box, etc. After I had enough, I yelled back from the middle of the fairway, "Can you keep it down!" I'm a nice guy too.....and short and he was real big and even though I had three other friends with me, he managed to kick my ass with one haymaker to the left hand side of my face, head and my world was moving sideways. Yes, I had a golf club in my hand when he came screaming up to us in the golf cart, but dropped it....because I was thinking he's coming at me unarmed.....I'm a law abiding citizen.....I can't hit him with my 8 iron....etc.....so I dropped my 8 iron to take him on and defend myself with my bare hands. He got a good shot on me and was on top of of me in top time flat with multiple blows....but my friends fought him off. He high tailed it to the parking lot in his golf cart and bolted.....arrested 3 days later. COnvicted of A&B, got 2yrs and I sued him and won.....still havent seen any $ because of appeals, etc.....probabaly never will. Things happen so quick. I decided then and there, that I would ignore drunk jack asses and take self defense courses in martial arts and get my Class A LTC. I aleways carry since.....and keep my radar on 24/7.....with a much more humble attitude. I pray your friend is ok and makes a full recovery and that the BG goes away for a long time and loses his entire life savings due to your firend suing his ass.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    With piping, hammers and other utensils in the store.... someone couldn't knock this guy "out" ..... too many bystanders and observers in life.

    I would have knocked this boy out with something, and your friend would have been in much better shape. Waiting for the police........ God help me I hate that kind of comment.

    I don't care how BIG the guy is, take his knee caps out and he's much shorter and much more docile. There are other things that I might have done, which he would have not gotten up from, or holds that he would feel excruciating pain ..... and then there is always "against the threat of death or great bodily harm". I can show your friend a few easy maneuvers that would have allowed him to quickly put the guy's head into the wall, and out on the floor... if he would like.

    I'm afraid that if the guy was kicking the door and ripping it down, I would have advised him I was "armed" .... and a few other appropriate remarks.

    His wife, can sleep with or have an affair with anyone she wants, and despite what he may think, he can't do much about it. Also, if this was about a "picture" , if it was taken while they were in a public place.... doesn't matter... it's quite legal to take a picture of anyone in a public place.

    I hope they throw the book at his attacker. Sounds like he could use being locked up for quite a long time.
    Spade115 likes this.
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    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    Wow, well I'm glad to hear your friend is okay.
    Operation Enduring Freedom Veteran

  13. #28
    Member Array trainercb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    With piping, hammers and other utensils in the store.... someone couldn't knock this guy "out" ..... too many bystanders and observers in life.

    I would have knocked this boy out with something, and your friend would have been in much better shape. Waiting for the police........ God help me I hate that kind of comment.

    2 regular employees AND the manager came in and "Asked him to stop." my friend said that one of the employees said "well, call the cops" and he said they just stood there and watched the ENTIRE beating
    A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them..."
    -George Washington

  14. #29
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    Hey man, I definitely feel sorry for your friend. That sucks big time!

    But it is also indicative of the thousands of others out there with ccw permits yet only carry part time "when they feel they may need it". Hey, your friend just found out the hard way how stupid that idea really is.

    And he's lucky if he doesn't end up with permanent scars from his ordeal. He has yet to find out if he is going to have any lasting effects. Maybe he'll end up having seizures. Maybe he'll end up having severe headaches which come and go for the rest of his life. For crying out loud, he could have been beat to death.

    As far as shooting the guy beating him (if he had been carrying a gun), is going to be a judgement call one makes at the time. Those factors are very fluent and things change quickly. What may not be justified in the first few blows and punches can quickly become justified if he starts to become debilitated and unable to defend himself.

    I am not a proponent who generally feels it's good to shoot an unarmed person before they even lay a hand on you. I believe you're more apt to catch a voluntary manslaughter charge at the very minimum. But nothing is set in stone. Disparity of force covers a wide range of circumstances.

    I prefer to have a non-lethal means to deal with those in-between situations. OC spray is perfect for use against unarmed aggressors. If it has no effect, they keep coming, they continue to beat you mercilessly you are then on much solid ground to use deadly force in stopping their assault.

    However, there are also times when trying to use OP spray is a pretty stupid idea. OC spray is not for use against people armed with deadly weapons. If you're hobbling around with a cane or on crutches and a 260 lb linebacker wants to rip your head off with his bare hands, I think there's a pretty compelling disparity of force issue there.

    You're friend had absolutely no means to defend himself either lethal or non-lethal yet he has a ccw permit. Well, that was very foolish of him. And I would have told him that last week too, before the incident.

    I hope he comes out okay.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    They would probably be fired if they did any more.

    While I have sympathy for your friend, I have serious concern for the safety of the wife.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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